Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
I am pretty staggered how many people here find debate impossible or don't read the earlier posts before commenting. I stated clearly that I was not saying this was engineered and yet several later posters suggested I was....
Equally I am amazed that some folks think that everyone who earns £50K works hard. I have known and I have fired over the years an awful lot of chaps who did not. Equally I've fired folks earning very little for exactly the same reason.
It is my experience that those who rise to higher rank are often more capable of presenting the illusion of work than those at lower grades. Its very easy to shift a lot of paper and appear busy in an office but if you're a cleaner and you don't move any of the dirt it is recognised far more easily.
All I am saying is that whenever I have had to go into a company and slash costs I've typically found it easier to find lazy b's that aren't worth their salary in middle management than finding the same on the shopfloor.
The reality is that the current bunch IMHO are more Marketeers / Spinners than any I have ever seen including the last lot. Hardly surprising when so many of the current Cabinet come from PR or similar disciplines.
Now I ask again - Who thinks that the Cabinet cheered and banged the table, as DC said they did, simply because they were so excited for Wills and Kate?
But based on one of your posts you DID suggest that 3 17k workers would be fired instead of one lazy 50k a year sits on his arse and does nothing worker.
The problem is, you're wrong.
Most jobs being shed directly, are public service jobs, jobs that SHOULD NEVER HAVE EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Thats what people missed, they are removing ENTIRE LEVELS of beurocrasy, which includes many "management level" staff.
This is the other problem, go talk to someone in ANY department in the NHS, knowing personally, and having spoken to dozens of people in management positions, having family that work in the sector, having worked in several departments and having the general concensus of most who work in those departments is that Labour massively increased the sizes of these departments, and half the workers don't turn up, come in late, spend all their day e-mailing and on the internet.
Partially the quick expansion, creation of new department and jobs and very little long term thinking, most of these staff are almost impossible to be fired despite being incompetant. Largely because the first people to lose their jobs when companies downsize, is the worst employee's, and they are the ones that find it hardest to find new employment, which led to a disproportionate number of unqualified, lazy or attitude problem having personel being added to the NHS.
Basically, most of the wasted 17k a year jobs in the NHS(the uk's biggest employer, by far) and many other government departments are, completely unnecessary, completely useless, massively overpaid, and should be fired even if we weren't in a terrible economic situation.
The first ever decent point I've seen Britboy make is, there is indeed a danger that the Tories will blame every single cut, and every single mistake they make on Labour.
But the reason that won't matter is, we've seen it before, more than 51% of the public are stupid, and manage to live under supposedly "bad times" under Thatcher, ignoring she dragged a useless government/country forward in the same way the Tories are being asked to again. It didn't stop the country completely forgetting what Labour had done, and several times since then people have still forgotten how completely inept Labour are.
Maybe not in 4 years, but 8 at the most and people will have entirely forgotten that it was labour who put us in this situation, so theres absolutely no problem with the public getting caught up in the Tories " we only did this because of labour" message, because its failed to make the slightest bit of difference previously.
The bad thing is, fairly obviously, is that Tories will cut our spending, dramatically(but no where near as far or as fast as necessary, something people miss), people will get unhappy, forget Labour put us here, vote them back in, they'll reverse every Tory policy and they'll plunge us into a new economic crisis, worse than the one we are no where near out of yet.
As for the wedding, honestly, I don't think there are enough politicians in the house of commons to think that quickly, calculate the media ignoring the government problems and then cheer about it, its stupid to even think it.
Fact is, take them all, put them in their own room and tell them the news, they'd do nothing, put people together in a huge room, they celebrate loudly.
have you seen a pub full of people celebrate a goal for any game, or at a match, have you ever reacted THAT much on your own in your living room.
People act differently in groups, its a proven fact, in almost any given situation the bigger the group in the further from what you think is "normal" most people act, strange, but very true.
