Student protest today - spec me a sign

scorza said:
I graduated 12 years ago and earn a decent salary - I wouldn't call £30k cheap, I wouldn't want the stigma of a huge debt hanging over my head. At some point a lot of these graduates are going to breed, tell them it's not a lot of money and that they can afford it then.
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Sure I will, because it's not. It is no more, in fact far less than the average executive saloon car that many of them will take their kids to school in. Most will have loans totalling far less than that anyway.

It is not a huge stigma either. You only repay it if you can afford it, when your salary drops below a certain level you stop paying. Personal responsibility isn't a stigma, it's a virtue.
 
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scorza said:
I graduated 12 years ago and earn a decent salary - I wouldn't call £30k cheap, I wouldn't want the stigma of a huge debt hanging over my head. At some point a lot of these graduates are going to breed, tell them it's not a lot of money and that they can afford it then.
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And yet you support a graduate tax, which is very similar in cost to the student per month but without a limit on payment liability...
 
Castiel said:
So he only wants the rich to pay...I see.:rolleyes:
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Yeah, he doesn't seem to have realised that a graduate tax, to be successful, would at a minimum have to hit the same payment levels as the loan system, or could even include a more Labour like threshold of £15k rather than £21k, and wants people to pay forever irrespective of how much their education actually costs...
 
Tunney said:
Nice Daily Mail logic.
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This term is used FAR too often in this forum. Most of you dont even know what it means. Anyone who knows (and probably hates) my opinions will know the Daily Mail is probably the opposite end of the spectrum to most of my views.

Perhaps they're protesting to help other people? Younger siblings, friends, maybe even complete strangers. They obviously feel that cheap higher education, even for middle class students, benefits society as a whole.
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Or maybe they just want a fight because they cannot be bothered to understand the issues at hand and how the new system works.
 
Dolph said:
Yeah, he doesn't seem to have realised that a graduate tax, to be successful, would at a minimum have to hit the same payment levels as the loan system, or could even include a more Labour like threshold of £15k rather than £21k
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Not really, a graduate tax would be lower for the majority of students because it would take a much higher amount of money from higher earners. Someone earning a six figure salary could easily be paying more every year in graduate tax than they would pay back in total in loan. That additional money would mean that the actual % take could be significantly lower and thus lower earners would pay less.

Note: I don't support a graduate tax, it's an even more terrible idea than fees.
 
Dolph said:
And yet you support a graduate tax, which is very similar in cost to the student per month but without a limit on payment liability...
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Tax isn't a liability unless you don't pay it. Debt is always a liability. Before you come out with the "they won't have to pay until they can afford it", don't be so naive - what's to stop the government changing the terms and conditions of these loans at will?

Castiel said:
So he only wants the rich to pay...I see.:rolleyes:
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If you're going to have a system where higher education isn't free, then a graduate income tax is the only logical system for payment. You can't have a system which hands a massive unfair advantage to the privileged, and everyone else gets lumbered with a massive debt which many will never be able to pay off. At least I thought you couldn't have it...
 
Well, that was pretty fun. Walked all over the place - wouldn't like to have been in one of the poor cars stuck in the roads though, one poor man was in a taxi :eek:

simisker said:
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Hahaha amazing :D

[TW]Fox;17857518 said:
As I am having huge problems understanding the motivations of these students I'd really appreciate it if you could answer a few questions to help me understand better.

a) Why are you protesting about something which will have NO effet on you at all, as it wont affect current students?
b) What exactly ARE you protesting about given the new measures make University more affordable to poorer people and also ensure the repayment threshold for the loan is higher than ever before?

Have you actually sat down and read the proposals in detail? Or are you bandwagoning?
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As for a), because I think it is important for the upcoming generation.

As for b), I am aware of the points you have made, but they don't change the fact that people are now going to pay nine times more tuition fees than I had to when I was an undergraduate. I don't think people should have to pay that much money to have the same opportunity as I had. It's as simple as that for me. You are perfectly free to disagree :)
 
Nitefly said:
As for b), I am aware of the points you have made, but they don't change the fact that people are now going to pay nine times more tuition fees than I had to when I was an undergraduate. I don't think people should have to pay that much money to have the same opportunity as I had. It's as simple as that for me. You are perfectly free to disagree :)
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Six times the amount (or an 86% increase over current fees). For those wanting to charge £9000 then they will have to offer silly amounts of grants to the poorest students anyway, effectively they will pay the same.
 
scorza said:
If you're going to have a system where higher education isn't free, then a graduate income tax is the only logical system for payment. You can't have a system which hands a massive unfair advantage to the privileged, and everyone else gets lumbered with a massive debt which many will never be able to pay off. At least I thought you couldn't have it...
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Yet, only those who can afford to pay actually do pay under this new system, and without the massively unfair open ended system you propose.

If you never earn the requisite salary, you never have to pay it back. It is not a liability in the same way as a mortgage for example and neither is it treated as such by credit agencies etc.

The fee system is as fair and equitable as it can be given the funding issues of university courses in the current economic climate.
 
scorza said:
Tax isn't a liability unless you don't pay it. Debt is always a liability. Before you come out with the "they won't have to pay until they can afford it", don't be so naive - what's to stop the government changing the terms and conditions of these loans at will?
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Tax is a liability, it is a liability of x% of your earnings.

All the problems you highlight with loans are problems with a graduate tax, apart from your unfair idea that forcing the 'rich' to pay excessive amounts is somehow fair.

If you're going to have a system where higher education isn't free, then a graduate income tax is the only logical system for payment. You can't have a system which hands a massive unfair advantage to the privileged, and everyone else gets lumbered with a massive debt which many will never be able to pay off. At least I thought you couldn't have it...
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You can't fairly have a system where some people pay nothing while others pay many times the cost of the education either, it is simply illogical, unfair and therefore exactly what is expected of the left.
 
Mr Jack said:
Not really, a graduate tax would be lower for the majority of students because it would take a much higher amount of money from higher earners. Someone earning a six figure salary could easily be paying more every year in graduate tax than they would pay back in total in loan. That additional money would mean that the actual % take could be significantly lower and thus lower earners would pay less.

Note: I don't support a graduate tax, it's an even more terrible idea than fees.
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You've just highlighted exactly what is so unfair about a graduate tax... I'm glad you don't support it.
 
dante6491 said:
Six times the amount (or an 86% increase over current fees). For those wanting to charge £9000 then they will have to offer silly amounts of grants to the poorest students anyway, effectively they will pay the same.
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I'm 99% sure it cost £1000 per year for my undergraduate degree, which started in 2005. I've confirmed this with a few of my old coursemates.
 
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