Student protest today - spec me a sign

scorza said:
The average salary in the UK is £28k - people who earn far below the minimum wage are going to sacrifice a significant part of their salary paying back these loans and this is fair? :confused:
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How does a graduate tax do anything differently, apart from never letting people stop paying?

How do you know how the credit scoring system will work? I sincerely it will be taken into account by the CRAs (who have disgraced themselves in the credit crunch). If my bank is going to be lending money to people they need to know how what other debts the person holds, their ability to repay and their assets. If I'm going to lend someone £100k for a mortgage on a £115k asset and they already have £30k student loan debt - that needs to be taken into account and the mortgage turned down if necessary.
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Surely they'll also take graduate tax liabilities into account (as they do with taxation liabilities now)?

But that's not what this is. We have a situation where if you're clever enough you can enjoy the benefits of a higher education. This is now being changed so you'll have to be both clever enough and willing to take on a huge amount of debt, unless you're in the privileged minority.
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Or, in your mind, take on an extra, uncapped and unlimited, tax liability as a 'fair' alternative, because you see the liability as being completely different, even through the end result is exactly the same...
 
Castiel said:
It may also have the side effect of making people think about their options in a realistic way instead of automatically going to Uni for the 'experience' with no real direction.
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Sadly this will never ever happen. Why go and get some real experience and responsibility when you can get drunk and stoned for cheap?

For the record, i didn't go to uni for the single reason that I had no idea what I wanted to do and didn't see the point in bumming around for 3 years. Looking back it was 100% the right decision.
 
Castiel said:
Why should I pay higher taxes or do without services to fund those who wish to gain a degree to further their own financial security.
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The same reason you pay for the rest of education. The same reason you pay for cancer care, etc. etc.

Oh, and reducing a degree to its economic value is not a good thing so the "to further their own financial security" bit is off to a bad start.
 
Delvis said:
Thats what I thought....?

Unless you earn a certain amount annually, you dont pay back a thing? Its practically un-noticable anyway as it just comes out as 'tax'
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You mean you won't pay it back until you do, and the interest has increased the loan value? Also, I wouldn't call £300 a month un-noticeable personally.
 
Mr Jack said:
The same reason you pay for the rest of education. The same reason you pay for cancer care, etc. etc.
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We pay for Primary and Secondary education because the country needs to learn the basic skills taught there. We pay for the NHS because the country needs to be healthy.

We shouldn't pay for Uni because we don't all need degrees to keep the country working.
 
Mr Jack said:
The same reason you pay for the rest of education. The same reason you pay for cancer care, etc. etc.
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That was a valid argument when circa 10% of people went to uni to study academic subjects that the country's economy required.

It isn't a valid argument for sending 50% of people to uni to study all manner of irrelevant crap.

Oh, and reducing a degree to its economic value is not a good thing so the "to further their own financial security" bit is off to a bad start.
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Why not? The real problem seems to be that not enough thought is being given, by all sides, to the reality of their degree.
 
Dolph said:
How does a graduate tax do anything differently, apart from never letting people stop paying?
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A graduate tax will result in them giving up a significantly smaller portion of their income. They will not have any debt either, nor the stigma that goes with it.

Dolph said:
Surely they'll also take graduate tax liabilities into account (as they do with taxation liabilities now)?
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All liabilities should be taken into account, however since there's no liability with a graduate tax, apart from if you don't pay it when you should it's less likely to be a problem for the graduates of the future.
 
Basher said:
You mean you won't pay it back until you do, and the interest has increased the loan value? Also, I wouldn't call £300 a month un-noticeable personally.
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You'd have to be earning £61,000 a year to pay £300 a month. So while I'm sure you'd notice it the other £3,200 a month you'd bank would probably tide you over.
 
scorza said:
A graduate tax will result in them giving up a significantly smaller portion of their income. They will not have any debt either, nor the stigma that goes with it..
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No it won't it will mean they pay a huge amount more.

At least the loan you can pay off and be done instead of paying for it forever.
 
Why are they whining about EMA? I never had EMA & I know a lot of people who didn't have it either when they went through college & we all managed fine?

This guy on Sky news is an idiot.
 
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scorza said:
A graduate tax will result in them giving up a significantly smaller portion of their income. They will not have any debt either, nor the stigma that goes with it.
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Why? Apart from because you wish to use it to soak the rich? not to mention that the uncapped nature of a tax means you could end up paying significantly more than your tuition is actually worth.

Is it fair in your mind that people should be forced to pay over the odds for a service they have used?

Due you have any evidence at all that student debt attracts a stigma? It certainly didn't when I applied for my mortgage etc, the bank didn't care about student loans in the slightest, and we didn't borrow from an irresponsible bank with lax standards.

All liabilities should be taken into account, however since there's no liability with a graduate tax, apart from if you don't pay it when you should it's less likely to be a problem for the graduates of the future.
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There absolutely is a liability with any tax, as has been pointed out to you (and not refuted beyond repetition of the challenged statement) repeatedly.

The liability is x% of your income above a certain level, just as income tax is a liability on your gross earnings, and indeed just as a student loan is treated as a liability on your gross earnings.
 
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