F1 2011 season news / pre-season updates

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deko said:
You're joking, right? Winning pretty much everything he drove in from age 8, finishing level on points with the previous World Champion and within 1 point of winning the championship in his rookie season, and then winning the WDC in his second season in F1 isn't enough for you? Damn, who would you have driving in F1?
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I don't doubt for a minute that he is not a good driver, I do, however, doubt if he would be as good as he at Mclaren if he started in a mid-field or lower car.

deko said:
Your point about Schumacher is ridiculous, he was in the mid-field for 1 race then went straight into a car which was fighting for wins. Even hill barely ran in a mid-field car before jumping into the fastest car on the track.

Mentioning Vettel made me laugh, he ran for nearly 3 years in mid/lower field cars, and yet he is no better at Hamilton at getting through traffic? You just disagreed with yourself.
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When Schumacher was at Benetton they were not dominating like Ferrari iduring the Schumacher years, and I'm pretty sure he didn't win 'every' race at Benetton... he still had to fight his way through the field on some occasions and other time had to settle for lower places.

I'd forgotten how long Vettel had been in F1 to be honest.

Besides I've never doubted Hamilton as a good driver, however, I do believe that the he is not the best out there, and if he started in F1 differently he would be more complete as driver.
 
it's all about making the best fist of it you can with the car you have. Take Gp2 for example. The cars are identical yet lewis dominated, including passing everyone in one race, although I can't remember when it was. he also made a very poor McLaren look far, far better than it actually was at the beginning of last season. You can't really knock the guy for taking every advantage of what was put in front of him and I think he's on of the 'raciest' drivers out there. Always prepared to have a go and try and make a pass. Sure it cost him this season but I don't think he'll change any time soon.

Oh yeah, building rumours that Legard might not have his contract renewed. Brundle has implied (but not anywhere on the record) that he doesn't think the chemistry is there between them and the BBC are looking at alternatives.
 
MarcLister said:
Why is it rubbish? It's my opinion that Hamilton should have had to serve an apprenticeship somewhere. That's not a fact or a rule its my opinion. I don't like people who become superstars straight away. I like to see my sporting stars work to get to the top in the sport. Hamilton worked his way into F1 but then didn't have to work IN F1 to get to the top.
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Massively late into this thread's "whos the best driver debate" but I 100% agree with this opinion for one reason, it gives F1 and its drivers that spoilt child appearance. Most sports have this problem where someone whos the best thing is thrown into the limelight and millions of quid (some footballers come to mind) but havnt shown the that they deserve the best of the best straight away, quite a few drivers have done very well in lower formulae before getting to F1 and Hamilton's record is an exceptional record, but he never had that year at minardi half the grid did to provide us he can drive the wheels of a car and show up the pay drivers in the lower midfield...

If nothing else Hammy needs a year in a dog of a mclaren (as in much more so than the one that started 09, with only real midfield potential) to show he has the character and ability to shine. Take MSc as a good example where he turns around the dinosaur of Ferrari (with the help of the staff that joined then too) and really does something special, I dont see this in Hamilton in the same way...
 
I don't get that argument to be honest. I'd totally agree if Hamilton waltzed into a RB6 style dominant car and took the title after beating an okay journeyman like Webber. But he didn't, he went in against a driver who is probably the best of the field, and he held his own right from the first lights out. That's a far tougher proving ground than any midfield team.
 
pingwing said:
If nothing else Hammy needs a year in a dog of a mclaren (as in much more so than the one that started 09, with only real midfield potential) to show he has the character and ability to shine. Take MSc as a good example where he turns around the dinosaur of Ferrari (with the help of the staff that joined then too) and really does something special, I dont see this in Hamilton in the same way...
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By all accounts the 2010 McLaren was a dog compared to the rivals!
He's beaten Alonso in the last 4 seasons, once in the same car, twice in slower cars and 2008 was no white wash.
He's beaten the guy that made Schumacher look old hat on every playing field.
I'm not quite sure what else Hamilton can do to prove to people he is worthy of his position.
 
Setroc said:
I don't get that argument to be honest. I'd totally agree if Hamilton waltzed into a RB6 style dominant car and took the title after beating an okay journeyman like Webber.
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I wouldn't say Webber is a journeyman. That guy put a lot on the line to make it into F1. Now Irvine...that guy was a journeyman if I ever saw one. The guy seemed more interested in having sex with beauty pageant contestants than he did testing an F1 car.

Setroc said:
But he didn't, he went in against a driver who is probably the best of the field, and he held his own right from the first lights out. That's a far tougher proving ground than any midfield team.
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Damn straight. What's more, Hamilton was competing at the sharp end, right from the get go. And at the front of the grid, any mistake you make gets noticed and probably magnified. If he made the same mistakes in the middle of the pack, it probably wouldn't get picked up on.

I would actually go so far as to say that Hamilton did it the hard way. He went up against Alonso in his first season in F1. This could've ended his career had he come up short.

When MSc was at Bennetton, Bennetton were searching for a decent partner for him.

They brought in Lehto, who was VERY highly rated, before arriving at Bennetton. From what I remember Lehto may have got lapped by MSc (on pace), by MSc and he didnt last long. I remember they then brought in Verstappen, who again, got whipped by MSc. In both cases, after the whipping, their F1 careers pretty much ended.

In the above way, Hamilton's drive alongside Alonso could've been very dangerous for his career.
 
Setroc said:
I don't get that argument to be honest. I'd totally agree if Hamilton waltzed into a RB6 style dominant car and took the title after beating an okay journeyman like Webber. But he didn't, he went in against a driver who is probably the best of the field, and he held his own right from the first lights out. That's a far tougher proving ground than any midfield team.
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The 07 McLaren was the best car that season, shown by both drivers finishing 2nd on the same points total. Neither one as Alonso didnt get the team throwing its weight behind him (which shows Hamilton has some talent but is just the golden boy of the team in his rookie season which highlights the undeserved feeling behind the praise of him). If he'd done a season at Force India or Williams (as a random guess) to give him some track time and memorable performances without the best car in his first season he'd be more likeable.

LizardKing said:
By all accounts the 2010 McLaren was a dog compared to the rivals!
He's beaten Alonso in the last 4 seasons, once in the same car, twice in slower cars and 2008 was no white wash.
He's beaten the guy that made Schumacher look old hat on every playing field.
I'm not quite sure what else Hamilton can do to prove to people he is worthy of his position.
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Not advertise shoes... If he didnt act like a cog of the corporate machine that he is, then he might look a bit more worthy... (Mansell came out with something like this a while back).
 
pingwing said:
Not advertise shoes... If he didnt act like a cog of the corporate machine that he is, then he might look a bit more worthy... (Mansell came out with something like this a while back).
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Seriously?

Have you seen some of the other adverts and endorcements that F1 drivers have done?

Eddie Irvine and car pressure washers.
Schumachers Bicardi advert.

Mansell can't talk either... Euronics and Moneysupermarket.com?

Racing drivers are walking and talking billboards, with the exception of Raikkonen, who just does the walking bit. ;)
 
Flibster said:
Seriously?

Have you seen some of the other adverts and endorcements that F1 drivers have done?

Eddie Irvine and car pressure washers.
Schumachers Bicardi advert.

Mansell can't talk either... Euronics and Moneysupermarket.com?

Racing drivers are walking and talking billboards, with the exception of Raikkonen, who just does the walking bit. ;)
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alonso has his own brand of kitchen tiles, that ones a classic.
 
Flibster said:
Seriously?

Have you seen some of the other adverts and endorcements that F1 drivers have done?

Eddie Irvine and car pressure washers.
Schumachers Bicardi advert.

Mansell can't talk either... Euronics and Moneysupermarket.com?

Racing drivers are walking and talking billboards, with the exception of Raikkonen, who just does the walking bit. ;)
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HAHA! I know everyone does it, im going on most have the decency just to smile or not talk... (Mansell needed the cash for his Le Mans team now he hasnt fitten in an F1 car since 94), and what were you going to expect from Eddie? He's the richist man from NI by quite a way (and has his own go-kart track up here)

It just grinds me when you see Hammy reading a script with that look that he thinks he could be an actor... Really hated that shoe advert as it was for running shoes, he doesnt run for a living (unless your into racial stereotyping which isnt cool)
 
sunama said:
When MSc was at Bennetton, Bennetton were searching for a decent partner for him.

They brought in Lehto, who was VERY highly rated, before arriving at Bennetton. From what I remember Lehto may have got lapped by MSc (on pace), by MSc and he didnt last long. I remember they then brought in Verstappen, who again, got whipped by MSc. In both cases, after the whipping, their F1 careers pretty much ended.
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You've conveniently forgotten that JJ Lehto was involved in a huge pre-season testing accident which essentially finished his career. He tried a couple of comeback races but was in constant pain with his neck injury.

Not really a fair fight.
 
Many drivers have had many accidents. MSc even broke his leg. When he returned, he did so and dominated.

Mansell had a SERIOUS problem with his foot. In 1992, with that serious pain, he dominated.

N.Lauda had an accident of such proportions that his face was permanently disfigured. He came back to win the title.

The fact that Lehto may or may not have had an accident (I do not recall this accident), is of little relevance. The fact of the matter was that he was highly rated, he was brought in to Bennetton, to try and assist Bennetton in winning the Constructors title. That year, he was completely out performed. It was a fair fight in as much as he had an opportunity to try and get close to MSc. I certainly wouldn't expect MSc to get beaten by him, as the car and team were totally focussed around MSc, however, I did expect Lehto to get close to MSc.
 
sunama said:
The fact that Lehto may or may not have had an accident (I do not recall this accident), is of little relevance.
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It's wholly relevant. He did a great deal of damage to his neck in the accident (pre-season testing at Silverstone), and was told he needed six months out to even get back to a normal life, let alone race a Formula 1 car. Around three months later, and he qualifies 0.7sec behind Schumacher at Imola with almost no feeling in his arms and hands. He had no strength in his neck at all, so every time he accelerated or braked his head was flung backwards and forwards. And yet by the time they got to Spain (round 5 I think?) he qualified 4th and went fastest in the morning warm-up. Schumacher was impressed enough that he had his car set-up exactly like JJ's.

Almost no testing, Flavio playing mind-games in the background, and a car designed around his team-mate. It's amazing that Lehto did as well as he did, under the circumstances.
 
deko said:
Your point about Schumacher is ridiculous, he was in the mid-field for 1 race then went straight into a car which was fighting for wins. Even hill barely ran in a mid-field car before jumping into the fastest car on the track.

Mentioning Vettel made me laugh, he ran for nearly 3 years in mid/lower field cars, and yet he is no better at Hamilton at getting through traffic? You just disagreed with yourself.
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You realise of course Hill was developing that car for 2 years prior to racing in it!!

LizardKing said:
I'm not quite sure what else Hamilton can do to prove to people he is worthy of his position.
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How about crash less often!!!
 
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