F1 2011 season news / pre-season updates

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I disliked Lewis almost as soon as he came into F1 if I'm really honest. :p I didn't like the whole being given the support of McLaren for such a long time idea and walking into a top car made by a top team, compared to Alonso, Hill, Kimi etc. They all served apprenticeships at lower, poorer teams and had to work hard to get into a car to win the title. What does Lewis do? Ends his first season 2nd, 1 point from the title.

Hill drove a couple of races for Brabham and then jumped into comfortably the fastest car in the field, not really serving an apprenticeship :). I have to disagree though, there is a very good reason LH got the sponsorship, because he was rapid. He's not going to turn down that offer, is he? Not his fault somebody decided to invest money in him, it's a daft reason not to like him. He would never have gotten that opportunity if he wasn't good enough.
 
A poll was taken from the 12 team princples of F1, as to who the best driver in 2010 was.

Alonso was voted No.1

http://www.ferrari.com/English/Form...ls_rate_Fernando_Alonso_best_2010_driver.aspx

So lets see: The current crop of F1 drivers voted Alonso as the best driver, currently in F1. The current crop of team principles, voted Alonso as the best driver in F1.

I really can't see how an argument can be put forward to suggest that Alonso is not the "daddy" of F1.


"I am very pleased to learn that the majority of team principals chose me as their best driver of the year" from your link

So not everyone thinks like you
 
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"I am very pleased to learn that the majority of team principals chose me as their best driver of the year" from your link

So not everyone thinks like you

And that my friend is why it was a "poll", which Alonso won. To win it, you don't need 100% of the votes...just the majority.

When polled, the majority of team principals, placed him as No.1
When polled, the majority of current F1 drivers, placed him as No.1

The majority of team principles and F1 drivers, apparently do think like me. ;)
 
At any rate, until someone else wins the title then officially Vettel is 'the daddy', since it's his car wearing the big red '1' on it :)

We shall have to disagree on this one.

"The Daddy" does not merely have a No.1 on his car. The No.1 driver is the driver who most other drivers fear. "The Daddy" is the driver that most other drivers expect to be the one to beat (provided he has a decent car).

In 1994, (for 3 races), even though Senna lost all of them, at the time, he was "The Daddy". He was also not carrying the No.1 sticker on his car at the time.

In 1998, everybody knew who the daddy was - MSc (who was at the peak of his powers at this time). He wasn't carrying the No.1 sticker on his car, yet everybody knew who the best driver in F1 was.

Your argument regarding the No.1 sticker on the front of the car would work only if all the cars were equal and if the RBR cars were not 1s/lap faster than everybody else, on some of the tracks. ;)
 
The majority of people also seem to think that the X-Factor is a really good TV show....that doesn't make them right ;)

Hehehe.
That's a great show. Especially the car crashes which are often witnessed. It can make for great comedy.

You seem to be suggesting that the team bosses and current F1 drivers maybe wrong.

At the end of the day, everybody has their opinion and this is all it is. An opinion. Unless we get 24 drivers in identical cars, with equal reliability, racing on all tracks for a season, it is always going to be difficult to judge, just who is the best. I would however, hold their opinion in higher regard than anyone else's, simply because they live and breathe F1 and know exactly what an F1 driver must go through to win (or do well). If they say that Alonso is the best...I'm definitely not going to disagree with them.

By the way, why did your man, Button not finish ahead of Hamilton (as you predicted, pre-season)? You haven't explained this one to me. Do you now agree that Hamilton is a superior driver?
 
Hill drove a couple of races for Brabham and then jumped into comfortably the fastest car in the field, not really serving an apprenticeship :). I have to disagree though, there is a very good reason LH got the sponsorship, because he was rapid. He's not going to turn down that offer, is he? Not his fault somebody decided to invest money in him, it's a daft reason not to like him. He would never have gotten that opportunity if he wasn't good enough.
Even if Damon had done one GP in a Brabham that's still one more GP in a non-race-winning car than Lewis Hamilton.
 
We shall have to disagree on this one.

"The Daddy" does not merely have a No.1 on his car. The No.1 driver is the driver who most other drivers fear. "The Daddy" is the driver that most other drivers expect to be the one to beat (provided he has a decent car).

So Sutil is "The Daddy" then, or Vettel, Hamilton takes himself out rather than others.

Its literally impossible to tell who the best driver is unless we have a season where everyone gets given an identical car to race in, even then, you'd want to split 16 races into 4 with a car thats uber in corners, 4 with an uber straight speed card, 4 with a slidy pain in the butt to control car, and 4 with an engine you have to be incredibly gentle with to finish the race.

Vettel won the title, but was far and away in the best car, people say he's got the ability to put in a blistering lap no one else can, but is that true, really? We know he can put in a lap to beat Webber, but would Hamilton/Alonso in that car have comftably beaten both in every qualifying in the season, we don't know.

For me it seemed clear that the Red Bull car was leagues ahead of the other cars, and their leads were consistantly dropped, and wasted by safety cars, but you also have to take in account Hamilton/Alonso were often driving flat out on the edge and losing time, while the Red Bulls after it was clear they had the pace often seemed to be cruising and then had a little willy waving contest for fastest lap in the final few laps at a pace clearly available to them all race. Had they gone all out like others behind them, and safety cars weren't routinely wiping out 15-30 second leads, they would have finished probably a few races having lapped pretty much everyone.

Which car was better out of McClaren/Ferrari, who knows, I personally think Hamiltons driving closed the gap between the cars and that he was the best driver of the year by a country mile. I think Alonso got more out of the car than pretty much any other driver would have, and Massa consistantly underperformed in the car, and no one but Hamilton would have done as well in the McClaren and that Button was basically bang on exactly average and that a dozen drivers could have gotten almost identical boring performance out of the car.

Alonso/Hamilton were VERY close this year, but again, its literally impossible to say who was better, hell even in the same car often most weekends one tries a new bit of kit and the other driver wouldn't, let alone in two separate cars. Vettel, the car was too good, too comftable, Vettel could have been better than ALonso/Hamilton in the same cars, or much worse, the RB was SOOO far ahead its really impossible to know just how good or badly he and Webber did.
 
Even if Damon had done one GP in a Brabham that's still one more GP in a non-race-winning car than Lewis Hamilton.

He more than deserved that seat, why are you intent on hating him simply because he was fast, got sponsored and got an opportunity to drive a fast car? Should he have turned it down and went to join Toro Rosso instead, even though he had no need to spend a few seasons learning how to drive?
 
He more than deserved that seat, why are you intent on hating him simply because he was fast, got sponsored and got an opportunity to drive a fast car? Should he have turned it down and went to join Toro Rosso instead, even though he had no need to spend a few seasons learning how to drive?
I said I disliked Lewis, not hated. I just not happy with the way other F1 drivers had to work for their right to a race winning car and Lewis got that straight off. I was replying to someone about how the British press build up the underdog and then destroy them when they get too big for their boots. The press loved Lewis when he was up against Alonso at McLaren but then when Lewis started getting cocky and arrogant the press changed their minds about him.
 
I said I disliked Lewis, not hated. I just not happy with the way other F1 drivers had to work for their right to a race winning car and Lewis got that straight off. I was replying to someone about how the British press build up the underdog and then destroy them when they get too big for their boots. The press loved Lewis when he was up against Alonso at McLaren but then when Lewis started getting cocky and arrogant the press changed their minds about him.
I have to agree with Marc on this one, Lewis didn't deserve the seat he had in the begining, even now i'm not sure.

F1 should have the same idea as Motogp, whereby 'rookies' can only ride for a non-works team for the first year.
 
I have to agree with Marc on this one, Lewis didn't deserve the seat he had in the begining, even now i'm not sure.

F1 should have the same idea as Motogp, whereby 'rookies' can only ride for a non-works team for the first year.

I disagree. I know football is a very different sport, but look at Lionel Messi. Should he have been forced to play his first few years in the Spanish third division before leaping into the Barca starting lineup? If one of the best teams in the world have nurtured him and trained him from a young age (as McLaren did with Hamilton) then it is up to them when they wish to reap the rewards by putting him in a top outfit.
 
I disagree. I know football is a very different sport, but look at Lionel Messi. Should he have been forced to play his first few years in the Spanish third division before leaping into the Barca starting lineup? If one of the best teams in the world have nurtured him and trained him from a young age (as McLaren did with Hamilton) then it is up to them when they wish to reap the rewards by putting him in a top outfit.

I see what you are saying, but, consider how dangerous F1 is to inexperianced drivers, and how many of those have accidents or cause accidents with others. Without racing in the 'mid pack' these drivers have more problems when the do get stuck behind back-markers or caught up in the 'mid pack', whereas people like MSC (much as I hate the guy), Hill, Webber and countless others, tend to understand a little more about what the slower driver will do/is doing, someone like Hamilton, maybe Vettel as well, tend to get a little lost and panicy when caught in traffic.
 
I said I disliked Lewis, not hated. I just not happy with the way other F1 drivers had to work for their right to a race winning car and Lewis got that straight off. I was replying to someone about how the British press build up the underdog and then destroy them when they get too big for their boots. The press loved Lewis when he was up against Alonso at McLaren but then when Lewis started getting cocky and arrogant the press changed their minds about him.

I have to agree with Marc on this one, Lewis didn't deserve the seat he had in the begining, even now i'm not sure.

F1 should have the same idea as Motogp, whereby 'rookies' can only ride for a non-works team for the first year.


WHAT...rubbish
Lewis started at eight in karting (Cadet class) Intercontinental A (1999), Formula A (2000) and Formula Super A (2001)

European Champion in 2000 with maximum points. In Formula A and Formula Super A, racing for TeamMBM.com
He was a "Rising Star" Member in 2000 (BRDC). And don't forget Big Ron
actually called him in 1998 after Hamilton won an additional Super One series and his second British championship.

Also John Button helped out Lewis when he was young as he had very little money and John knew lewis was something special.

Oh and why not put what Schumacher said about Lewis when they did a kart race..

“He’s a quality driver, very strong and only 16. If he keeps this up I’m sure he will reach F1
It’s something special to see a kid of his age out on the circuit. He’s clearly got the right racing mentality.”
 
Hamilton has done nothing wrong and has made the absolute best of having a decent car under him from the get-go.

Should he have turned down the opportunity to the driver for McLaren and instead opted for Torro Rosso - absolutely not. In life, sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way to get anywhere and Hamilton grabbed it with both hands. He could just as easily have driven slow, made lots of mistakes and not challenged for the title from the word go.

Hamilton deserved to drive in a title contending car from the word go. His stunning début year, where he matched the achievements of the reigning World Champ (Alonso), all the way is a testament to that. Had Hamilton got whipped by Alonso, then there would've been a strong case against Hamilton being in such a good car. Luckily for him (and McLaren), Hamilton proved to be a revelation.
 
We shall have to disagree on this one.

"The Daddy" does not merely have a No.1 on his car. The No.1 driver is the driver who most other drivers fear. "The Daddy" is the driver that most other drivers expect to be the one to beat (provided he has a decent car).

In 1994, (for 3 races), even though Senna lost all of them, at the time, he was "The Daddy". He was also not carrying the No.1 sticker on his car at the time.

Senna is a special case. Prost had gone, Mansell was (initially) defending his IndyCar title, Piquet was no longer racing....Senna was the most recent champ, having run the FW15C close in '93 everyone thought he'd annihilate the field in '94. It didn't turn out that way. A young German driver had picked up the crown. Maybe you've heard of him, his name is Michael Schumacher....

Your argument regarding the No.1 sticker on the front of the car would work only if all the cars were equal and if the RBR cars were not 1s/lap faster than everybody else, on some of the tracks. ;)

You really don't read a goddamned thing that I write, do you?

Once again:

me said:
Can't blame the car - after all, a driver who's supposedly that good ought to be able to get around any deficiencies in that department and the Ferrari was hardly a starting-money special (or hobbled by tyres as in '05).

Savvy, moose-brain? ;)

You seem to be suggesting that the team bosses and current F1 drivers maybe wrong.

Once again, sunama makes a play for the "Brain of Britain Award" :D

By the way, why did your man, Button not finish ahead of Hamilton (as you predicted, pre-season)? You haven't explained this one to me. Do you now agree that Hamilton is a superior driver?

Ah, there it is! That's why you're getting all het up.

First and foremost - Button is not 'my man'. I think Jessica might have a few things to say on that score ;) Second, I've told you more than once that I'm quite okay with my pre-season prediction being wrong - after all, you're no stranger to that situation yourself :D.

And at the end of the day, who honestly gives a ****? Yes, I'd rather see Button finish ahead of Hamilton. But I'm not going to break down in tears if he doesn't - it's great to see a couple of British drivers in the same team, both World Champions, racing each other in equal machinery. The situation with the car design rules bothers me a lot more (orders of magnitude more, in fact!) than whether Hamilton finished the year ahead of Button :)

On which note - here's to hoping for the rule changes next year to fall into Ferrari's hands and net them the constructors title ;)
 
I have to agree with Marc on this one, Lewis didn't deserve the seat he had in the begining, even now i'm not sure.

F1 should have the same idea as Motogp, whereby 'rookies' can only ride for a non-works team for the first year.
You're joking, right? Winning pretty much everything he drove in from age 8, finishing level on points with the previous World Champion and within 1 point of winning the championship in his rookie season, and then winning the WDC in his second season in F1 isn't enough for you? Damn, who would you have driving in F1?

I see what you are saying, but, consider how dangerous F1 is to inexperianced drivers, and how many of those have accidents or cause accidents with others. Without racing in the 'mid pack' these drivers have more problems when the do get stuck behind back-markers or caught up in the 'mid pack', whereas people like MSC (much as I hate the guy), Hill, Webber and countless others, tend to understand a little more about what the slower driver will do/is doing, someone like Hamilton, maybe Vettel as well, tend to get a little lost and panicy when caught in traffic.

Your point about Schumacher is ridiculous, he was in the mid-field for 1 race then went straight into a car which was fighting for wins. Even hill barely ran in a mid-field car before jumping into the fastest car on the track.

Mentioning Vettel made me laugh, he ran for nearly 3 years in mid/lower field cars, and yet he is no better at Hamilton at getting through traffic? You just disagreed with yourself.
 
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