Muslims against Christmas?

How is it that a religion/culture that placated and stabilised large tracts of the world has recently started to produce such utter retards?

Funny story, iraqi woman i know had her kids taken into care for a bit not long after she got into the country. Turns out she didn't know you aren't supposed to beat your kids in the UK, and when her daughter went to school with bruises social services took an interest.

What was that bit about protecting kids again?
 
radar19 said:
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What a sloppy photoshop. Note the way that the wrinkles in the poster aren't reflected in the text.

So... do we think the Daily Mail mocked it up? Or got it from someone else who mocked it up?
 
Tefal said:
4:24

One passage that oddly had some very very strange responses on here.

First time they all sort of went with "I can't say what it means" etc despite doing it for other passages, and a few out right refusing to even think about it or even say what they thought it meant.
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That passage is telling men that married women are out of bounds. And that adultery by the man is forbidden and that the woman must be given her due dowry. Remember in most ancient Islamic cultures the woman owns everything.

It does say that women fleeing non-muslim men are to be treated as unmarried women if that non-muslim man is at war with you.

The entire passage refers to a mutual attraction and a dowry being paid to the woman as being required under law. This doesn't interpret as being able to mistreat women, quite the opposite in fact.

4:34 however does allow for the beating of your wife as a last resort if she is rebellious. This is obviously anathema to a modern viewpoint and like the Bible which has similar passages is fuel to those who would beat their wives anyway. The official translations notes explain:

*4:34 God prohibits wife-beating by using the best psychological approach. For example, if I don't want you to shop at Market X, I will ask you to shop at Market Y, then at Market Z, then, as a last resort, at Market X. This will effectively stop you from shopping at Market X, without insulting you. Similarly, God provides alternatives to wife-beating; reasoning with her first, then employing certain negative incentives. Remember that the theme of this sura is defending the women's rights and countering the prevalent oppression of women. Any interpretation of the verses of this sura must be in favor of the women. This sura's theme is "protection of women."
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1. Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. It's actually the Pagan festival of Yule.
2. How come God having a Son is worse than Paganism yet being a pagan is worse than domestic violence?


Some people are attracted to these kind of fringe groups. Mostly people with mental health issues. Most Muslims, like most Jews, Christians, Pagans et al are perfectly grounded people with some kind of faith.
 
Castiel said:
That passage is telling men that married women are out of bounds. And that adultery by the man is forbidden and that the woman must be given her due dowry. Remember in most ancient Islamic cultures the woman owns everything.

It does say that women fleeing non-muslim men are to be treated as unmarried women if that non-muslim man is at war with you.

The entire passage refers to a mutual attraction and a dowry being paid to the woman as being required under law. This doesn't interpret as being able to mistreat women, quite the opposite in fact.
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Now have a read of a second translation. there are some quiet remarkable differences in them all.
 
Tefal said:
Now have a read of a second translation. there are some quiet remarkable differences in them all.
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Read my edit, I think you may be confusing 4:24 with 4:34.

I took the translation from the Authorised English Translation.


Edit, I've looked at several others, including an Arabic one and they are all the same. Link to the translation you are refering to?
 
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Castiel said:
Read my edit, I think you may be confusing 4:24 with 4:34.

I took the translation from the Authorised English Translation.
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Yes i know you used the first google result, but have a look on some of the other ones. not one that just calls it self that. (and ideally one that wasn't translated by a man who claims to be a messenger of god and that angels have told him that passages of the quran refer explicitly to him personally.)

Most have it as

And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you.

And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse.So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
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Which many places seem to take as slaves are well you know.

And then there's one of the hadiths which explains this in more detail can;t be arsed to find it now but amusingly last time it was posted a few again refused to even comment on it and one said the hadiths are lies to besmirch Mohammed.
 
Tefal said:
Yes i know you used the first google result, but have a look on some of the other ones. not one that just calls it self that. (and ideally one that wasn't translated by a man who claims to be a messenger of god and that angels have told him that passages of the quran refer explicitly to him personally.)

Most have it as




Which many places seem to take as slaves are well you know.

And then there's one of the hadiths which explains this in more detail can;t be arsed to find it now but amusingly last time it was posted a few again refused to even comment on it and one said the hadiths are lies to besmirch Mohammed.
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I fail to see how this is evidence of mistreatment of women. Slavery was a common practice throughout the world at the time this was written.

As there are no slaves in any of the Muslim countries or indeed the UK, the relevance is gone and it in no way states that those women who are not slaves to begin with are to be treated as such when married.
 
The Christian church activily supports wife beating in Spain and probably elsewhere in slightly more 'retarded' societies. For want of better words.

I've even heard it in a sermon myself when a concerned Spannish female friend dropped it into conversation, I had to hear it myself.

And yup, the Church in Spain stands by the fact that if you have had to hit your woman she must have done something to provoke it.

/sin

It wasn't the only church.

Point to this?

Who knows, no one will pay attention either.

It isn't just islamusts who can misrepresent ancient text.

Christians are doing it on a daily basis.
 
Biohazard said:
The Christian church activily supports wife beating in Spain and probably elsewhere in slightly more 'retarded' societies. For want of better words.

I've even heard it in a sermon myself when a concerned Spannish female friend dropped it into conversation, I had to hear it myself.

And yup, the Church in Spain stands by the fact that if you have had to hit your woman she must have done something to provoke it.

/sin

It wasn't the only church.

Point to this?

Who knows, no one will pay attention either.

It isn't just islamusts who can misrepresent ancient text.

Christians are doing it on a daily basis.
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Exactly, people will find a justification for their actions just about anywhere.
 
Castiel said:
I fail to see how this is evidence of mistreatment of women. Slavery was a common practice throughout the world at the time this was written.
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Read the hadith and the other translations it seems to very strongly suggest you can do with a female slave you gained through war what you like sexually with or without her permission nd that this was fine in Mohamed and Allah's eyes.

like i said try reading a translation not by a well to say "radical" would be an understatement, also you know the site you used is his followers group and not exactly reliable.
 
Castiel said:
Exactly, people will find a justification for their actions just about anywhere.
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Exactly.

But no, it's all just the mooooslims and islam.

People in this country are thick, and have to gain their opinions from the xenophobic press.

Which is a shame, because there are issues lurking below in religion that spans all denominations.

But does this make a difference to the islam haters?

Not in the slightest it doesn't seem.

Oh, and the guy on the other page was right.

The church only 'adopted' Christmas to try and engage the pagans to transfer their worship over, or to make it look like not such a dramatic change.

Which it clearly was.

Anyway, enough of my random spouts...
 
Tefal said:
Read the hadith and the other translations it seems to very strongly suggest you can do with a female slave you gained through war what you like sexually with or without her permission nd that this was fine in Mohamed and Allah's eyes.

like i said try reading a translation not by a well to say "radical" would be an understatement, also you know the site you used is his followers group and not exactly reliable.
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Im sitting here reading it from the quran I have at home.

You do realise that there are no slaves in modern islamic countries. So to attempt to express the passage as married women are slaves is simply wrong.
 
shephga said:
I take offence that they have targeted "Raves" as a bad thing :(
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Who did?

All of muslim land?

It's because they don't agree with our slutty culture and women that dress like dross.

It's none of their business, but I can see how it offends some people.

Who wants to see an ugly fat bitch gyrating around smashed off her face with her tights hanging down, **** falling about the place etc.

It's embarresing to watch our society.

I don't think its the music or dancing, but decadent society.
 
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