Capitalism

[The Halk]

Oh yeah, here's another marker of a capitalist society: weight loss pills.

These annoy the HELL out of me. I hate them with a passion. Why? It's not because they don't actually work (that's just a flaw of the product) but they promote yet more laziness. They make people conform to the notion that if you spend money, you get results. Spending money is starting to replace hard work and determination, like in the case of weight loss pills.

Weight loss pills are great. They're like condoms. They allow us to indulge in a pleasurable act without the consequences. Or are you against sex for anything but procreation too?

Sooner or later we'll invent something which allows us to eat what we want and not take exercise and be healthy. That will be a step forward.

 

[The Halk]

I thought Vince Cable summed capitalism up perfectly, it kills competition.

You start off with a free market but slowly the smaller businesses fall by the wayside and the result becomes a few mega corporations that continue to eat up or kill the smaller fish. For example small corner shops are becoming a thing of the past because they cannot compete with the already established big super market chains.

Then you have the fact that our politicians are greedy human beings like the rest of us and most would be happy to take bribes from said mega corporations to lobby laws/policies for them, eg. music piracy.

Vince Cable is a stopped clock. He gets it right every so often.

Many of the failing of capitalism are due to market interference, not due to capitalism being flawed.

 

[rypt]

For example small corner shops are becoming a thing of the past because they cannot compete with the already established big super market chains.

Only because people want to buy the crap that supermarkets sell rather than good quality products

 

[The Halk]

No, I really haven't... you are welcome to come and look around my room to check for yourself.

I can't prove it But I'm certain I'm right. All you could really do is look deeply into research on the effects of marketing to find out. You'll just have to take my word for it, or not.

 

[rypt]

Dude, I HIGHLY doubt that I buy stuff based on adverts due to the simple fact that I have such unique tastes and strong opinions on things that it is a pain for me to find anything that I FULLY like

Plus I hardly watch that much TV for adverts, getting all my US TV shows online advert free.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Here is a thought: does mass media and mass marketing constrain a free market?

 

[TheCenturion]

Weight loss pills are great. They're like condoms. They allow us to indulge in a pleasurable act without the consequences. Or are you against sex for anything but procreation too?

That's not the way I was looking at things though

Unlike condoms, weight loss pills don't really work. Condoms do sometimes fail, but their success rate is exceptionally high.

 

[PermaBanned]

When are we going to have a better chance than this to change it though? Take power for the masses and replace it with a system by which resources (by which i mean what people do with their lives and the results of that) are categorized into what we need and what we went. We spend as much (resources, not money) on what we need as it needs and whatevers left we vote on what to do with.

Just a quick list...

Needs:

• Food
• Water
• Shelter
• Healthcare
• Education
• Electricity - (Internet?)
• Equality
• Freedom from oppression
• Entertainment

Wants:

• Scientific advancement
• Space travel/exploration
• Anything anybody wants to put forward

That is what humanity is ultimately capable of, not this trap we seem to be caught in at the minute.

 

[The Halk]

Hatter - I don't know that they constrain the market. But I think the perfect competition theory does not account for them. Perhaps in time though the brand will fade and marketing will have less effect.

There are many products now which are run of the mill and people will buy the cheapest around.

 

[The Halk]

That's not the way I was looking at things though

.

Yes it is. You said this.

These annoy the HELL out of me. I hate them with a passion. Why? It's not because they don't actually work (that's just a flaw of the product) but they promote yet more laziness.

 

[TheCenturion]

Needs:

• Equality

What does equality mean though? Does everyone deserve the opportunity to be equal?

 

[PermaBanned]

What does equality mean though? Does everyone deserve the opportunity to be equal?

Of course they do, otherwise that would imply that some people are born superior to others. Obviously this isn't the case.

An equal share of the power and wealth, equal opportunities and access to healthcare, education and the ability to live a good life. Naturally some people would have more influence than others, but this is not the same thing as power and they would have to earn it.

 

[scorza]

Vince Cable is a stopped clock. He gets it right every so often.

At least that's something, some other government ministers who are wrong all of the time

 

[TheCenturion]

Yes it is. You said this.

You are equating not wanting to have a child to laziness

What you said was that they both allow somebody to indulge in a pleasurable activity without consequences.

Pasty smashing - having a child
Eating food - getting fat

Condoms are free from your local GP, so you don't have to spend money to get them. They are a protective and preventative measure. Ie: to stop child birth

A better comparison would be weight loss pills compared to the morning after pill. ie: you've already gotten fat, this pill helps you get rid of that problem. Even then this comparison is not that good.

What you're talking about is people who aren't fat, using weight loss pills and then eating loads and loads and loads. Which is pretty silly imo.

 

[TheCenturion]

Of course they do, otherwise that would imply that some people are born superior to others. Obviously this isn't the case.

An equal share of the power and wealth, equal opportunities and access to healthcare, education and the ability to live a good life. Naturally some people would have more influence than others, but this is not the same thing as power and they would have to earn it.

Ah yes, I agree that everyone is born equal. But what I meant was some people taking decisions in their lives that change the playing field. Eg: murderers.

 

[The Halk]

You were trying to say that not being lazy was a virtue. As if eating but taking weight loss pills to prevent weight loss was laziness, and not doing that was virtuous.

I disagree. My example still stands, it is just the same as you saying it's lazy for people to take the pill to avoid unwanted pregnancy as it is to take a pill to avoid unwanted weight gain.

Exercise is not virtuous either. It's a chore people do in order to become/stay fit and healthy and for a chemical reward.

 

[The Halk]

Ah yes, I agree that everyone is born equal. But what I meant was some people taking decisions in their lives that change the playing field. Eg: murderers.

People aren't born equal. What kind of short sightedness is that?

Do you believe that Einstein was born with the same potential as Wayne Rooney? Is it pure chance that Einstein was encouraged to look at the physical laws of the universe while Rooney was encouraged to kick a ball?

 

[TheCenturion]

You were trying to say that not being lazy was a virtue. As if eating but taking weight loss pills to prevent weight loss was laziness, and not doing that was virtuous.

I disagree. My example still stands, it is just the same as you saying it's lazy for people to take the pill to avoid unwanted pregnancy as it is to take a pill to avoid unwanted weight gain.

Exercise is not virtuous either. It's a chore people do in order to become/stay fit and healthy and for a chemical reward.

The purpose of the pill, and of condoms is to prevent pregnancy. But the purpose of weight loss pills is exactly that: for people to lose weight. ie: the assumption is that the person wanting to lose weight is fat to begin with.

Therefore, your comparison doesn't work as they serve different purposes in their separate contexts.

 

[The Halk]

That's just not what you said originally.

the notion that if you spend money, you get results. Spending money is starting to replace hard work and determination, like in the case of weight loss pills.

There is great merit in avoiding hard work and determination. There aren't enough hours in the day or years in my lifespan for me to read all the books watch all the films, enjoy all the music, converse with all the people I would like to. Anything which removes a chore is beneficial for me. Anything which means I can consume more with less consequences is great.

I understand you now want to change your argument, but I don't know what you want to change it to, could you be more exact about why you hate weight loss pills and why that relates to capitalism? The best I can understand is that you hate them because they don't work, but it can't be that because you said it wasn't.

 

[TheCenturion]

People aren't born equal. What kind of short sightedness is that?

Do you believe that Einstein was born with the same potential as Wayne Rooney? Is it pure chance that Einstein was encouraged to look at the physical laws of the universe while Rooney was encouraged to kick a ball?

Equal does not mean identical to.

Obviously everyone will have different genes, and be good at different things. Some people will be good at sports, others good at painting others good at maths etc
It's a mix of genetic talent and an acquired skill.

But once again you've aimed your hammer and missed the nail. By equality we mean that all people should possess the same rights: access to clean drinking water, a shelter etc.