Christian assemblies in schools could face axe over claims they infringe children's human rights

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Castiel said:
Look, I'm not denigrating your beliefs, what I am saying is that school is not just about learning, it is also about discipline. RE classes required you to do something you didn't want to do (I hated Rugby and was sent to the Head numerous times because I refused to play, same thing was said, disrespecting my PE teacher and so on), you got punished not for refusing to believe, but for not following instructions in class.

It had nothing to do with the type of lesson and everything to do with you misbehaving.
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How on earth do you know that, guess what your not always right.

Here we go again with you pushing your anti atheist agenda, lumping them all together in one evil malevolent group. You claim not to be pro religion, but your posts and anger against anyone that dares to question you really shows your true feelings.
 
Davies_M said:
This wasn't for lesson homework...It never did happen in lessons, I actually used to enjoy learning about Sikhism and Buddhism. And like I said, it wasn't bullying...it was a row from the teachers from not reciting the lords prayer during assemblies on a common occassion, I didn't think this as anything major. But now I'm older and hopefuly wiser it does turn me a bit sick thinking about how much they were trying to drill this practice into my head...
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Uh!, I thought you said it happened in the classroom...:confused:

never mind.

As for reciting the Lords Prayer, we used to do that and we got told off if we blatantly didn't do it, again for not doing as we were told rather than anything to do with religion per se. It wasn't a big deal and considering it was rewritten by Henry VIII pretty pointless if your suggesting that is indoctrination.

These days you don't have to participate anyway.
 
neil473 said:
How on earth do you know that, guess what your not always right.

Here we go again with you pushing your anti atheist agenda, lumping them all together in one evil malevolent group. You claim not to be pro religion, but your posts and anger against anyone that dares to question you really shows your true feelings.
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It's got nothing to do with atheists or religion, and everything to do with common sense.

The common sense approach is that he was punished for not following instructions and not for his disbelief.

I'm pro-choice, Some atheists are attempting to remove that choice. Again nothing to do with religion.
 
You cant stand the thought that you might have to admit there are religious teachers ramming their spiel down some poor kids throat right now.

Its a good move, get religion out of schools and remove faith schools, leave it to the kids make their own minds up as adults. Unfortunately it will never stop parents indoctrinating them from birth, but at least they may get the chance to question their beliefs once they reach school.
 
Castiel said:
Uh!, I thought you said it happened in the classroom...:confused:

never mind.

As for reciting the Lords Prayer, we used to do that and we got told off if we blatantly didn't do it, again for not doing as we were told rather than anything to do with religion per se. It wasn't a big deal and considering it was rewritten by Henry VIII pretty pointless if your suggesting that is indoctrination.

These days you don't have to participate anyway.
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Yes, sorry for the confusion. Tutor period was a lesson in itself, but wasn't about RE, and we had to go to a register before and after assembly, which is why I said classroom.

Even if it is rewritten, it is under the guise of religious practice, and is something I didn't want to partake in. Is that so wrong? Does that warrent being disrespectful when not partaking, and not disrupting?

Would you think it disrespectful of me if they demanded that I must do the 5 daily prayers and I didn't partake because I didn't believe, or if I was forced to use a rosary?
If we are taught to respect religion, that it is the untouchable belief then it is a bit more than 'not following orders'
 
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neil473 said:
You cant stand the thought that you might have to admit there are religious teachers ramming their spiel down some poor kids throat right now.

Its a good move, get religion out of schools and remove faith schools, leave it to the kids make their own minds up as adults. Unfortunately it will never stop parents indoctrinating them from birth, but at least they may get the chance to question their beliefs once they reach school.
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What about Parents who want to send their children to faith schools, in fact those children who wish to attend faith schools?

I have already said RE should be elective rather than compulsory, but banning it simply limits choice and is just another form of indoctrination.

I have no doubt that RE teachers are teaching religion or 'spiel' as you call it, again I already said I was removed from my RE classes for questioning everything mine said....(school in the 70's/80's was somewhat different than now) I once dropped a bible on the floor in front of the entire school claiming that it burnt my hand....I was well and truly punished for that incident.

I do doubt however that teachers are systematically indoctrinating children or humiliating them because of their beliefs, this may be true on a rare occasion but I doubt it is endemic in the education system as some are suggesting.

The fact is here that we have a very small minority who are attempting to impose their will on the majority.

Do you not think that education in all religions helps foster understanding rather than ignorance...especially in a multicultural society such as ours.
 
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Davies_M said:
Yes, sorry for the confusion. Tutor period was a lesson in itself, but wasn't about RE, and we had to go to a register before and after assembly.

Even if it is rewritten, it is under the guise of religious practice, and is something I didn't want to partake in. Is that so wrong? Does that warrent being disrespectful when not partaking, and not disrupting?
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No of course not, why did you simply not request to be excluded on religious belief grounds?

It's been your legal right for decades.
 
BunnyKillBot said:
You can't stand the thought his parents sent him to that school, and the responsibility ultimtely lays with the parent ;)
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You act as if there were secular schools all around the UK, one in each town...my school wasn't identified as being religious, it was just a normal state school with compulsory assembly and RE, and then one unwritten rule they added in with compulsory prayer...
 
Davies_M said:
You act as if there were secular schools all around the UK, one in each town...my school wasn't identified as being religious, it was just a normal state school with compulsory assembly and RE, and then one unwritten rule they added in with compulsory prayer...
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You have the right to not participate.

My son goes to a catholic faith school and we were given that option on his induction, it was explained fully and openly.
 
Castiel said:
What about Parents who want to send their children to faith schools, in fact those children who wish to attend faith schools?

I have already said RE should be elective rather than compulsory, but banning it simply limits choice and is just another form of indoctrination.

I have no doubt that RE teachers are teaching religion or 'spiel' as you call it, again I already said I was removed from my RE classes for questioning everything mine said....(school in the 70's/80's was somewhat different than now) I once dropped a bible on the floor in front of the entire school claiming that it burnt my hand....I was well and truly punished for that incident.

I do doubt however that teachers are systematically indoctrinating children or humiliating them because of their beliefs, this may be true on a rare occasion but I doubt it is endemic in the education system as some are suggesting.

The fact is here that we have a very small minority who are attempting to impose their will on the majority.
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Not sure i agree with your minority / majority thoughts, but without some form of referendum we probably wont know.

I believe somewhere in the thread you quoted a large percentage of people in the UK as holding some form of religous belief. Are you certain people don't just tick the religion they entered at birth when filling in such forms ? I have done that many times but it doesn't reflect my religious views.
 
Castiel said:
No of course not, why did you simply not request to be excluded on religious belief grounds?

It's been your legal right for decades.
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For starters, I was under 16 I wasn't really aware...

I tried reasoning with them that I don't believe in any religion and that attempting to force me to pray is ludicrous but that never got far and would be responded with a 'Don't answer me back'

Only during 6th form did they feel the that I had the right to not partake in prayer (although still having to endure bible stories twice a week).
 
neil473 said:
Not sure i agree with your minority / majority thoughts, but without some form of referendum we probably wont know.

I believe somewhere in the thread you quoted a large percentage of people in the UK as holding some form of religous belief. Are you certain people don't just tick the religion they entered at birth when filling in such forms ? I have done that many times but it doesn't reflect my religious views.
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Who can be sure, Why tick the box for Christianity (or whatever), why not tick the box for No Religious Conviction.

I tick no religion, why would I tick a box stating something that I wasn't. I wouldn't tick Female instead of Male....why do it for religion?
 
RDM said:
But you are saying that children should not be brought up Atheist or Religious. Surely it is the parents right to choose how their child should be brought up? As part of that choice it may be to send them to a faith based school?
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No it is the Child's right isn't it?

Either way if they want to send their child to a faith based school then that is fine. Sad but fine.
 
Davies_M said:
For starters, I was under 16 I wasn't really aware...

I tried reasoning with them that I don't believe in any religion and that attempting to force me to pray is ludicrous but that never got far and would be responded with a 'Don't answer me back'

Only during 6th form did they feel the that I had the right to not partake in prayer (although still having to endure bible stories twice a week).
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To be fair, no school I went to taught bible stories in 6th form, and RE was not compulsory after your O level options either.

You should have spoken to your Parents about it.

I understand the risks, I ask my son about his religious education at school regularly and have corrected his RE teacher on several points of Catholic history (I'm not a popular parent in the RE dept I suspect, I am as equally vociferous against religious nonsense and poor interpretation as I am Non-religious). As his Parent it is my responsibility to ensure he receives a well rounded and open minded education, I just take umbrage when groups such as the NSS try to tell me what I can and cannot do.
 
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So they will also stop teaching evolution as well then........... only fair. Can't have it both ways.

Originally Posted by Castiel
The fact is here that we have a very small minority who are attempting to impose their will on the majority.
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Exactly!
 
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Castiel said:
To be fair, no school I went to taught bible stories in 6th form, and RE was not compulsory after your O level options either.

You should have spoken to your Parents about it.

I understand the risks, I ask my son about his religious education at school regularly and have corrected his RE teacher on several points of Catholic history (I'm not a popular parent in the RE dept I suspect, I am as equally vociferous against religious nonsense and poor interpretation as I am Non-religious). As his Parent it is my responsibility to ensure he receives a well rounded and open minded education, I just take umbrage when groups such as the NSS try to tell me what I can and cannot do.
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It wasn't a huge deal for me anyway, I knew what I believed at the time and like I said, just took the knock on the chin and moved on. I stood my own ground without being disrespectful to their religion.

I do detest close mindedness from both sides, and it is one of the reasons why I enjoy your posts on here when it comes to this subject as you do seem to know your stuff and present it in an un-preachy way (unlike some)
 
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