Is it worth getting a centre speaker?

Any recommendations for someone in the 'bang for buck' crowd? I don't particularly need raw POWAH! because I have a roughly 10 x 12ft bedroom with a fair bit of stuff in (although a fairly clear path for A/V to be directed at me from a seating position roughly in the centre of the room), so I care more about sound quality. Be mainly for TV/sports/films/games since for music I'm going with some nearfield monitors on my computer desk as I listen to music mostly when I'm here.
 
I'd always go with a dedicated centre speaker,

And since it's mainly dialogue and is positional audio, it really should be hindered by having a mid-sized speaker for it, as opposed to a floor stander, any bass can be diverted by the amp to other speakers/subwoofer, and most decent centre speakers do an absolutely great job..

I'd certainly say that mixing another audio stream into the normal L/R Pair and relying on 'phantom' centre processing is as flawed as any argument IMO if SQ is the aim..

But then, ideally, for proper AV, all speakers should be as closely matched (or identical) as possible..

I've gone from a full B&W Floorstanders/Bookshelf (DM603/DM601/CCR6) which sounded superb for music, but overwhelmed and didn't ever blend that well, and yes, I did have the same thought about the centre, and used the DM603's to provide a phantom centre, but it all got overwhelmed when the action picked up..

I actually have gone to a full set of B&W M1 satellites and a resonable sub, these work better for me in a smaller room (17 * 13), each channel seems to be more distinct and when cranked up things don't break down as all the bass is done by the sub, for impact and presence at high volume, it blows my previous stuff out the water.. But, musically, they are pretty good in movies, but not quite there for normal listening, but since I listen to music less then 10% of the time, I have just bought some good headphones to cater for that..

I've also recently upgraded to the Yam 667, it's excellent out of the box, incredibly detailed and holds it together well at high volumes, the Onkyo has more presence at lower volumes, but I just like the clinical signature of the Yamaha, and I do like to crank it up and it's so nice that it doesn't get overly harsh..
 
Demon said:
, I did have the same thought about the centre, and used the DM603's to provide a phantom centre, but it all got overwhelmed when the action picked up..

..
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Sorry but all that says to me is the amp wasn't up to the job of driving the speakers, which can't actually get overwhelmed.... Classic mistake, people think everything is down to speakers, and get ones better than the electronics are up to. But hey want do I know ;)

Oh I was using 3 Linn 2250 power amps with Active cards into Dynaudio Speakers and a Kinos AV pre amp.... Plus Linn 12" Isobarik active sub.... :)
 
9designs2 said:
Sorry but all that says to me is the amp wasn't up to the job of driving the speakers, which can't actually get overwhelmed.... Classic mistake, people think everything is down to speakers, and get ones better than the electronics are up to. But hey want do I know ;)

Oh I was using 3 Linn 2250 power amps with Active cards into Dynaudio Speakers and a Kinos AV pre amp.... Plus Linn 12" Isobarik active sub.... :)
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It was a Denon AVR3802, it certainly has no issues driving biwired DM603's normally, at much higher power levels, I started out with just floorstanders and some rears, the centre/sub came along later, and on that lower end level of kit, the dedicated centre was unquestionably a much better experience, as was getting a reasonable sub.

I'm sure your much more esoteric kit gets by admirably if you skimp on not having a centre speaker, but in the case of the OP and his much more down to earth aspirations, Its just in my own experience at this level that going sans centre speaker won't compromise things.

Of course, the OP should go and demo the Amp and try it with/without a centre useing speakers as close to his own as he can, its his ears he needs to please.
 
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Coming back to the OP, one requirement was for the sound to be more immersive.

I'm just not convinced that a centre speaker alone can deliver that. Dialogue will (or should) be clearer, sure. But if you want that "inside the movie" effect then IMO you need rear surrounds. That's something that isn't possible according to ferret face.
 
lucid said:
Coming back to the OP, one requirement was for the sound to be more immersive.

I'm just not convinced that a centre speaker alone can deliver that. Dialogue will (or should) be clearer, sure. But if you want that "inside the movie" effect then IMO you need rear surrounds. That's something that isn't possible according to ferret face.
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Yeah, I missed that, you are correct, if he can't 5.1, then perhaps adding a centre speaker is futile, as without rears (and a sub) the whole surround aspect tends to not work too well. There are many pseudo surround modes on modern AV receivers, but none sound remotely coherent to me, although they might be worth a demo, but again pushing 5 channels of audio through 2 speakers is a big ask purely based on the laws of physics..
 
thanks for all the info guys, certainly given me something to think about.

If a centre speaker will give more "presence" to dialogue then i'm thinking maybe i should go for it and maybe get the rear speakers and sub at a later date.

decisions decisions....
 
ferret face said:
I would say that its 90% tv and films etc and 10% music on this system and the flat is not tiny so I may look at the surround option. I'm itching to buy something anyhoo

:)
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I was gonna say... first you said you dont have the room for two rear speakers (they are small though so I dont quite understand that) and then you say its not tiny. Just go the whole hog and buy a 5.1 system.

The Q-acoustics 1010i set is now only £199 at Richer Sounds (£300 off, amazing deal!), is award-winning, and you will not get better for the money http://www.froogle.richersounds.com...ges/q-acoustics/1010i-5.1/qaco-1010i-5.1-pack
 
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thats a good idea about a home trial and yes i did say my flat was not tiny but its not massive either and to honest its my girlfriend who would complain about having rear speakers too, she thinks the floorstanders are too loud. Now, how do i talk her into this...
 
ferret face said:
thats a good idea about a home trial and yes i did say my flat was not tiny but its not massive either and to honest its my girlfriend who would complain about having rear speakers too, she thinks the floorstanders are too loud. Now, how do i talk her into this...
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From long experience advising people on the same situation (ie: girlfriend thinks peakers are too loud and TV too big) I have to say... put your foot down and ignore your girlfriend in this instance. Women have almost zero knouse when it comes to AV, and generally go from "Oh but I dont like the thought of it", to "Oh actually its really good" after a month of living with said AV upgrade.

Be a man, stick to your guns, and get the speakers... it's hardly doing something "bad" is it, and if you live a life where you have to tiptoe constantly around your other half rather than enjoy a few simple pleasures that don't hurt anyone then you know somethings wrong. :p

Get rid of the floorstanders and uy the Q-acoustics, problem solved and it will be a discreet setup.
 
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ferret face said:
thats a good idea about a home trial and yes i did say my flat was not tiny but its not massive either and to honest its my girlfriend who would complain about having rear speakers too, she thinks the floorstanders are too loud. Now, how do i talk her into this...
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The thing is, for music, a nice decent set of floorstanders works really well, but for movies, you don't necessarily need floorstanders, a decentish set of bookshelf/smaller speakers with a half decent sub can actually produce a better 'surround' experience..

I was in a similar situation, staqrting out with floorstanders, with music being the priority then wanting to switch to a full surround setup, but it was costing the earth, and actually on demoing other setups, it seemed to lack the pinpoint accuracy and clarity. As I said, I swapped it all for a reasonable set of smallish satellite speakers and a sub, this really hit the spot for surround, but was slightly compromised for more audiophile music, so I bought a decent set of headphones, which sound even better then my floorstanders ever did..

The new speakers are all wallmounted, giving more room back, and are less intrusive which pleased the missus no end!..

If I was short on room, and surround sound was 90 of my listening priority, then it might be worth considering.


The yammy 667 and Boston Acoustics Soundware XS 5.1 speaker package would be quite amazing at a limitless over your £500 budget.
 
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i think your right, i had the same problem when i bought the plasma tv but now she loves it.
i've made my mind up i'm off down to richer sounds next week to get the Yamaha then a centre speaker, after that i'll see about the rear speakers

cheers guys
 
ferret face said:
I currently have a pair of Monitor audio BR5 floorstanders connected to a Cambridge Audio Azur stereo amp and use this for watching movies on my plasma.

Question is.. i have been thinking if i should get a centre speaker to make things more immersive but this would mean buying an AV amp to replace the stereo one i have.
So it would probably cost me around £500 for the amp and the centre speaker, is it worth it in your opinion?

Oh and i cant go fully surround sound because we dont have the room in our rented flat..

Cheers
Ferret
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How far apart are your 2 front speakers? If they are less than 30ft apart then I wouldn't bother with a centre speaker myself....
 
After doing a bit more reading, another important factor is the size of your setup and how much of a sweet-spot you want, particularly if your home theater set up is meant to be enjoyed by multiple people in a larger room where you need a larger sweet spot area. For someone like me in a smaller room where it'd only be me or 1-2 other people in one specific spot, not too far away from the screen (on my incoming Fatsac!) a decent 2.1 setup will be adequate to convey the material properly. Also centre speakers as said need to be just as good, if not better than the side ones since they convey so much of the material. Couple of good threads on AVForums about it.

That 1010i deal is mad, but I think I'd rather get better main 2.1 speakers first, then build up the rears, then the centre depending on how big the arrangement is when I live somewhere more spacious.

edit - beaten to it.
 
MikeHunt79 said:
How far apart are your 2 front speakers? If they are less than 30ft apart then I wouldn't bother with a centre speaker myself....
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30ft is huge! Even 15ft as a minimum would be pushing it. Most household lounges aren't 30ft wide to begin with.

As it stands, my own system has the front left and right speakers about 2 metres apart with a centre and it sounds great.

Have a look through the gallery images, most HT setups have nowhere near 30ft and run a centre ;)
 
Certainly isn't a simple yes.

Am more than happy with my two ATCs on their stands. Have been setup well and the stereo imaging is cracking so much so that I doubt a centre would add much to be honest.
 
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