Best HD video? GF2? NEX5? other?

[Mud]

Is anyone able to give me the finer points of which cameras are best for video? This is just home movie use (incoming kid), but I want quality that will last. I've mentioned the Panasonic GF2 and Sony NEX5 in the title, but frankly I'm not overly impressed with the example videos I've seen...they're a bit jittery/juddery, though I don't know if this is down to encoding for web use. Stationary objects look ok, but moving objects seem to degrade massively. I'm not tied to the m4/3 style bodies, though I do like their size. I'd like 720p60, and 1080p at a framerate that divides evenly into typical 120/240Hz TV refresh rates (so probably 24, 30 or 60).

If the reality is a dedicated camcorder will give significantly better results, what should I look at? I've steered away from DSLRs a bit here, but if the best option really is a 5dmkII (with a lens adapter to use my Nikon glass) then I may spring for that. I wasn't impressed with D300s video, I've had and sold that body. I'd rather not spend DSLR money, but I don't like half measures

I've just realised I haven't researched the D3100 - I'll look into that, but any help is much appreciated.

 

[bigredshark]

On the Nikon side the D7000 produces very respectable video and the contrast detection AF isn't terrible (it's not pretty though or very fast). You either need to get manual focus down use and/or choose a lens/aperture which gets a decent depth of field (on the d7000 a 24/1.4 would be nice).

I don't know about the D3100 first hand though, it looses the AF but still does 1080 and everything important so it could be a good bet. That aside the 60D is good, has the tilting screen and is half the price of the 5DII...or the 550D supports the video orientated magic lantern firmware.

Choices choices.

I don't much rate the NEX video either though..

 

[ringo747]

If you are going for dedicated camcorder then I'd suggest the Canon Legria range. I have the tape based HV40 which is excellent.

With cheap storage now I'd probably go for something like the HF S21 which is flash memory based.

 

[Mud]

I'll look at the D7000, must admit it's more than I wanted to spend though. Got the 24/1.4 already...the DOF at f/1.4, even at 24mm is tiny though!

From what I'm seeing the D3100 doesn't wow. Lack of manual controls is annoying and I really hate the AF seeking, so I think I'll be manually focusing. I'd rather have a deep depth of field than a narrow seeky one!

I guess I may have to research cheaper Canon DSLR bodies, but I was hoping that motion was handled better by non-DSLR sensors. From what I've seen thus far maybe motion is just handled uniformly badly across the field :|

 

[Mud]

If you are going for dedicated camcorder then I'd suggest the Canon Legria range. I have the tape based HV40 which is excellent.

With cheap storage now I'd probably go for something like the HF S21 which is flash memory based.

Will do diligence on those, thanks

e: good call, the HF S21 is the new high water mark - really stunning picture quality and handles motion well.

 

[bigredshark]

I'll look at the D7000, must admit it's more than I wanted to spend though. Got the 24/1.4 already...the DOF at f/1.4, even at 24mm is tiny though!

It is a bit much to spend...

The 24/1.4 should give a depth of field of about 1m when focused on something 3m away wide open on a DX sensor (accuracy of calculations may be questionable). That's not too terrible as it gives you a chance to adjust focus, stop down to f/2.8 and it'll be about 2m.

 

[Mud]

If you are going for dedicated camcorder then I'd suggest the Canon Legria range. I have the tape based HV40 which is excellent.

With cheap storage now I'd probably go for something like the HF S21 which is flash memory based.

After doing some research I think I'll go for the Panasonic HDC-TM700, the HF S21 ended up second on my shortlist. Here's a group review that was helpful to me; they both appear excellent, but the Panasonic pushes 1080p50, is cheaper, and has a standard hotshoe accessory mount (I think), so although I'd have preferred the bigger screen on the Canon I think my choice is made

It is a bit much to spend...

The 24/1.4 should give a depth of field of about 1m when focused on something 3m away wide open on a DX sensor (accuracy of calculations may be questionable). That's not too terrible as it gives you a chance to adjust focus, stop down to f/2.8 and it'll be about 2m.

The 24/1.4 is a bit tricky to get a handle on because the focusing scale jumps from 1m to infinity, but the DOF is narrow enough that it taxes the AF (on FX anyway). Must admit to not having used it much at f/2.8, I'm usually at f/1.4-2, or f/8.

 

[Aleksandrs]

Nikon HDSLRs suffer from really bad rolling shutter. If you do want a DSLR for video, then look at Canon 550D for budget. Baring in mind that your Nikon lenses will only be manual focus if you can deal with constantly focusing for your home movies. But every single Nikon video I've seen has had really bad rolling shutter and jello effect. Okay so every DSLR gets it, but Canons seem to be a lot better with rolling shutter distortion.

Rolling shutter is noticeable when handheld and at anything around 50mm or larger. Wide angle lenses you don't notice the rolling shutter as badly. The rolling shutter will be worse on the 5dmk2, because the sensor is much larger. You could always get a rig for it, but thats obviously a bit much.

Depends what your budget is really and what sort of video you'd like. Personally I shoot with a 550D and I use it for everything including videos of the family. It's a lovely all round camera, and I am now a complete Canon convert after being with Nikon for 4 years.

Phillip Bloom blogs with a Canon S95. It's a usual compact camera but even has an f/2 lens built in, so you've got a nice fast lens there and the video quality looks pretty good, all in a compact.

Video example of him using one here: http://vimeo.com/16864497

edit: another lovely example here http://vimeo.com/15151600

 

[Mud]

Nikon HDSLRs suffer from really bad rolling shutter. If you do want a DSLR for video, then look at Canon 550D for budget. Baring in mind that your Nikon lenses will only be manual focus if you can deal with constantly focusing for your home movies. But every single Nikon video I've seen has had really bad rolling shutter and jello effect. Okay so every DSLR gets it, but Canons seem to be a lot better with rolling shutter distortion.

Rolling shutter is noticeable when handheld and at anything around 50mm or larger. Wide angle lenses you don't notice the rolling shutter as badly. The rolling shutter will be worse on the 5dmk2, because the sensor is much larger. You could always get a rig for it, but thats obviously a bit much.

Depends what your budget is really and what sort of video you'd like. Personally I shoot with a 550D and I use it for everything including videos of the family. It's a lovely all round camera, and I am now a complete Canon convert after being with Nikon for 4 years.

Phillip Bloom blogs with a Canon S95. It's a usual compact camera but even has an f/2 lens built in, so you've got a nice fast lens there and the video quality looks pretty good, all in a compact.

Video example of him using one here: http://vimeo.com/16864497

edit: another lovely example here http://vimeo.com/15151600

Thanks for the input, but I think I've gone off DSLR video - if I wanted shallow DOF and super low-light performance it'd be a no-brainer, but it's not what I want here and the jittery/judderiness (in part because of the rolling shutter as you mentioned) makes the videos look 'unsettled' to me. A/B'ing video from 'proper' camcorders and video from cameras has only confirmed my suspicions here.

The S95 is interesting...I figured a smaller sensor would likely give better motion handling. Now that I've seen the 1080p50/60 output from the HDC-TM700 (at bitrates that exceed AVCHD spec!) I'm not sure I'll be able to go for anything less though

 

[Gibber]

If you are going for dedicated camcorder then I'd suggest the Canon Legria range. I have the tape based HV40 which is excellent.

With cheap storage now I'd probably go for something like the HF S21 which is flash memory based.

I second this. The Legria range is excellent. I used to have a HV30 and it was an excellent camera. I picked up a Legria HF S10 from eBay for £530 back in May, fantastic camera, produces excellent video quality and the built in 32gb of memory is handy too.

EDIT: Have to say though that the Panasonic looks very nice, seems camcorders are progressing faster than I thought! I'd expect Canon to come out with something similar soon albeit at an overinflated price!

 

[Mud]

I second this. The Legria range is excellent. I used to have a HV30 and it was an excellent camera. I picked up a Legria HF S10 from eBay for £530 back in May, fantastic camera, produces excellent video quality and the built in 32gb of memory is handy too.

EDIT: Have to say though that the Panasonic looks very nice, seems camcorders are progressing faster than I thought! I'd expect Canon to come out with something similar soon albeit at an overinflated price!

The Legria HF S21 is already more expensive than the TM700!

Here's some (spooled down) video from the Panasonic: http://vimeo.com/17283227

 

[mrthingyx]

Yes, Panasonic learned from their first foray into the CMOS world, which was rubbish.

The Panasonic is a great choice - cheaper than the equivalent Canon with image quality to match if not better.

I would have recommended either.

Having used a 5dMark2, I can say that the output on that is much, much better than the handycam streams, but the latter handles SOOOOOOOO much better in terms of "just taking a quick video clip."

 

[Gibber]

Yes, Panasonic learned from their first foray into the CMOS world, which was rubbish.

The Panasonic is a great choice - cheaper than the equivalent Canon with image quality to match if not better.

I would have recommended either.

Having used a 5dMark2, I can say that the output on that is much, much better than the handycam streams, but the latter handles SOOOOOOOO much better in terms of "just taking a quick video clip."

I agree with this. I have a 5d Mk II, the video quality is very hard to beat, especially in low light, it's just let down with limitations that do not exist on a camcorder. For me, the lack of auto-focus, handling and the large bitrate files that a DSLR produces prevents my 5D from being a viable camcorder replacement.

I realised this quickly after I sold my HV30 to fund for my 5D. For my usage, shooting video with the 5d was simply impractical and I was spending more time trying to manually focus on objects than I did actually capturing what needed to be captured.

DSLR video shooting is certainly good fun though, exceeds my HF S10 video quality by quite some margin. Some of the results I've seen across the net look very professional too.

Would be amazing if Canon released a DSLR that could offer both qualities but I doubt it'd happen, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot and would knock out their camcorder sales.

 

[Mud]

Well I ordered the panasonic...still waiting on something from Nikon that will make the most of my existing lenses. First manufacturer to come out with a camcorder with 24mm or 35mm sensor that accepts SLR lenses should make some money

 

[mrthingyx]

Well I ordered the panasonic...still waiting on something from Nikon that will make the most of my existing lenses. First manufacturer to come out with a camcorder with 24mm or 35mm sensor that accepts SLR lenses should make some money

Sony are coming close...

They've stuck the NEX5 sensor into one... with interchangeable lenses.

 

[Mud]

Sony are coming close...

They've stuck the NEX5 sensor into one... with interchangeable lenses.

Yep, shame video from the NEX5 is juddery mush...at least from the videos I've seen.

I'm slightly gutted that the Panasonic HDC TM700 I've ordered is 'only' 1080p50 (European market)...but all the framerates seem like a giant compromise, so I don't think I'll be cancelling the order.

 

[neoboy]

I been hearing some good things about Panasonic GH1, video on that is meant to be great and some good examples on Vimeo. Can also be had relatively cheap compared to other cameras, I've seen bodies sell for £300.

 

[Mud]

I been hearing some good things about Panasonic GH1, video on that is meant to be great and some good examples on Vimeo. Can also be had relatively cheap compared to other cameras, I've seen bodies sell for £300.

I've heard/read that the GH2 is significantly better. I've made my bed now though

 

[ashatron]

I've heard/read that the GH2 is significantly better. I've made my bed now though

The GH2 produces the quality video of any hybrid camera. Comparable to that of the RED film cameras which cost $18,000. The 5D mkII is excellent, but the Gh1 and GH2 are better for video. And a LOT cheaper.

Quality order -
GH2 > Gh1> 5D mkII > 7D // canon 550d

I hope you haven't placed an order yet. The GH2 is a lot cheaper and comes with an excellent video optimised lens with a stepless aperture - 14-140mm.

Paying about £1,200 for the GH2 with the 14-140mm is great as the lens cost £600 alone.

Also the GH2 has an extra tele conversion feature which is out standing. It allows you to zoom (crop) to the centre of the frame and film
video without any quality loss. Zooming as up to 2.8 times. So a 100mm lens can effectively film at 100mm AND 280mm without any quality loss.

 

[ashatron]

If you've ordered the GH1 make sure it's a hackable one. Search 'gh1 hackable serial' on google to find out. There is a thread on dvxuser as a guide.

The hackable GH1 is about twice as good as a 5D mkII. But the GH2 is still better than a GH1.