Diesel, the devils fuel and a ...scenario I would like to outline regarding the relative merits of r

Moeks

Moeks

Moeks

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Ok, so I have a question, or a conditional scenario I would like some thoughts on if you like.

If you were offered a fuel card by your employer with one major caveat, it can only be used for diesel, yet you currently have a nice petrol car, what would you do?

Obviously this would mean having to switch to a car powered by the devils own fuel, but the savings you could make on not actually having to pay for fuel at the pumps out of your own pocket to the tune of 150-170 a month, give or take would weigh very heavily on this decision.

I suppose the crux of it is, all things considered and accounted for, to basically avoid paying for fuel out of your own pocket, or most of it anyway, would you switch to a diesel car in such circumstances? ...assuming you have a car like mine, a Jaguar XJ6 3 litre petrol. So all things remain the same, the cost involved is the cost of switching to a diesel car basically ...the cost of fuel however being removed will off-set this in time, more than eventually.

I know with these kind of things it's usually a case of petrol or diesel ...so how many miles do you do? ...taking into account the typically higher cost of equivalent diesel models and the often higher cost of ownership due to modern diesels tendency to eat injectors, turbos and what not and the higher cost of diesel at the pump ..this usually means that for people that do anywhere near average mileage, it's actually not cheaper at all to buy a diesel.

But if you take the cost of the fuel out of the equation entirely, it starts to paint a different picture I think.

The money saved on fuel could even be added to slightly and used to purchase a newer car in theory.

So there are really a few ways of dealing with this that I see;

1 - Ignore it and carry on as you are.

2 - Find a similar value diesel car and switch to it and save money, however getting a car of the same quality and type but with a diesel engine can't really be done for the value of the old car, it would require money to be spent unless you downgraded. This is probably around 6k ...could spend a bit extra and still see savings quite quickly I suppose.

3 - Purchase a newer more modern and absolutely equally nice car to the one you have, but finance it monthly, mostly using the money you are saving from not paying for petrol ...with a bit added, so something in the 15-16k bracket most likely.

So scenario 3 is obviously the most interesting but it involves spending a fair amount of money and option 2 will actually save money in the here and now, although there is no particular use for this money other than saving it for ...whatever.

Personally, I don't think it's as simple as it first appears, especially when you have a car that simply can't be touched for the price, so the only way to really move forward is to spend mnore than the money saved per month on something much more expensive. Or one could buy a 2 litre diesel something or other and save lots of money on motoring ...but have a boring run or the mill car that holds no interest at all. Or I guess there is always the option of a much older diesel car that is nice and a bit more interesting like a Mercedes S320 CDI or such ....but this has massive liability written all over it, so you might save doing this ...or it might break and you don't save at all.
 
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All depends - how much do you like your car? Is it worth the extra £150-170 a month, just for the drive?
 
You have to take into account the tax you will have to pay for a fuel card for personal use. I can't remember the exact cost but a previous thread mentioned the cost and I think it was around £180 a month if you are in the 20% tax bracket.
 
Yea I know about that, as I said, all things considered and accounted for, all that really changes is the cost of fuel or lack of.
 
Moeks said:
Yea I know about that, as I said, all things considered and accounted for, all that really changes is the cost of fuel or lack of.
Click to expand...

Surely if you are paying around £150-170 a month in fuel for personal use and with a fuel card you no longer pay for the fuel but pay £180 a month in tax you are £10-30 worse off ?

Someone will no doubt know the exact amount of tax you pay for the card as a quick google doesn't come up with straight answer it may be a lot lower than £180. If the tax is more than the amount you spend on personal fuel it is not worth having a fuel card.

EDIT found the previous post that has the calculations for the tax it does appear to be lot cheaper than I thought.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18209047&highlight=fuel+card+tax

Still only going to save you £120-130 a month I wouldn't go from a nice petrol car unless the car itself was an upgrade for this.
 
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Yes I know that, as I said in my opening post though, 'all things considered and accounted for' ...that's it. So for the sake of debate, you get a pay rise which off-sets the cost of the tax to you, but only if you go down this road, if you leave things as they are ...things stay as they are.

So at the end of the day, you are saving on fuel costs, tax is accounted for, and the pay rise is not enough to tip you into another tax bracket either so that's not a consideration.

I suppose I should have outlined a more strict set of circumstances, but basically, it all comes down to fuel costs and the cars ...and any other costs said cars might involve. That's all, tax to the individual is not a factor in this.

Edit: I edited my first version of this post, I think I came over a little rude, I did not mean to and I appreciate people's thoughts, but I was trying to narrow the field of this post and question as everything else is accounted for and doesn't need to be discussed.
 
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So the question you're really asking is:

Would we consider getting rid of our petrol cars in exchange for a diesel in order to potentially save £150-170 a month? Forgetting cost to change for a moment.
 
Yes, basically that's it. However the actual cars and the cost to change the car is the bigger consideration here. The mundane bits like tax and what not are all accounted for already and at the end of the day all that remains the same.

Think of it like being given free diesel fuel but not free petrol if you like, it's not really the case of course but essentially as far as the consumer is concerned in this instance it would be.
 
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sell the petrol car use money saved on fuel costs to buy new car
you could even use the money from the sale to get cheaper finance
fuel is only ever going to keep rising in cost so the savings will increase
 
Moeks said:
Yes, basically that's it. However the actual cars and the cost to change the car is the bigger consideration here. The mudane bits like tax and what not are all accounted for already and at the end of the day all that remains the same.
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Well in that case, I think its a case of looking at cost to change, and seeing if its worth it. Also taking into consideration your own time - given your history you don't take car buying lightly, so factor in a few weeks for looking for the right car, too.

Also, would the potential "step down" in the refinement and driving experience be worth saving under £200 a month to you? I am of course basing this on your current car choice. Cost to change may outweigh the savings from a fuel card for a good few months, depending on your next car choice.
 
Have you taken into account the fact that the extra pay (to offset the BIK tax of the fuel card) will attract extra tax, NI and SLC?

Can you not take the pay rise, leave the fuel card (which would be 50% less burdening on your employer as they are not paying for the fuel card AND the payrise) and just pay for the fuel?
 
Why can the fuel card only be used for diesel? Strange setup there. Every time I've had a fuel card it was able to be used for anything I wanted.
 
Rilot said:
Why can the fuel card only be used for diesel? Strange setup there. Every time I've had a fuel card it was able to be used for anything I wanted.
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Maybe a company policy they only give the card to people with fuel efficient cars?
Everyone in sales at our compnay has to get a diesel company car, they are not allowed to pick a petrol car.
 
In the context of your post taking a fuel card makes little sense unless work pay you 10-12p per mile business use in which case it probably costs you money to run your car for work beyond your calculations.

My old place would offer a car allowance and 12ppm with the CA more than covering the 12ppm issue + cost of running or leasing. Where no car allowance was offered then fuel payments were 40ppm.

They also offered a fuel card or a 1k cash alternative if you received a CA.
 
It's dependant on miles done, surely.

I'd have no trouble switching though, I mean there's plenty of good diesels around. E90 335d plz. ;)

Rilot said:
Silly system.
So, 60mpg petrol Fiesta = Not allowed
30mpg 740d = Allowed
Click to expand...

Audi Q7 V12 TDI? :D
 
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Pretty much yes Dutch Guy, well sort of, although economy wasn't so much the reason as the account was limited to diesel as that's all that was needed originally, and it's not going to change just for me ..and tbh it would just be for me as well. There are only a few company cars in the company and they are all diesel, the card scheme was originally for vans and heavier vehicles and such, so it only needed to be diesel. Now there are some people with company cars and one other with a fuel card and his own car still, but they are all diesel. Like I said, all tax, NI and everything like that is accounted and compensated for.

You lot are coming at this from the wrong angle or should I say not the one I asked about, just take what I said at face value and go from there, I have done all the rest of the thinking myself and I'm only interested in your opinions on the cars and what you would do in such a situation.

-westy- has the right idea.

Petrol = pay for it, diesel = not, basically.

The complication and thus the bit I was asking for opinions on comes from the type of car involved, how do you at least equal an X350 XJ6 without actually spending a load of money on a diesel version or similar, something I wasn't really planning to do for a good while yet.

It's not as if I can just swap it like for like to a diesel unfortunately or I probably would, basically to get the sort of diesel car I would want to own would cost about 15-16k, the part ex value on mine is probably barely 5k these days (I haven't actually checked, just a guess) So It'd be a cost to me of over 10k most likely, although I wouldn't pay that upfront, I'd probably use the money saved on fuel and likely a bit extra to finance it.

So the cost per month to me, which in this particular instance is the best way to look at it I think could either be a downgrade in car type and profit, or a side-step into an older luxury diesel car with initial profit but a fair potential of quite large costs if it breaks ...however the XJ6 has that already really and it doesn't bother me tbh. The only cars of the type I am really interested in at sub 10k ...which is what it would need to cost to not make me wonder weather it was the right thing to do that happen to come with a diesel engine are the older Audi A8, the W220 S class (for some reason these scare me) and the pre face lift E65 7 series. The Jaguar XJ did not have a diesel engine until 2005 and they cost rather more than this and lets be honest ...why would I pay out all that money that would take years and years to recoup for basically the same experience as I already have with my XJ.

The only ones I could change to with relatively little outlay would be at least as old as my Jag and probably more likely to go wrong if anything. Or downgrade entirely, but I don't like the idea of that.

Or, the money saved could be spent along with a a little extra to finance a newer diesel car of similar status and interest. While this is interesting enough, I don't feel any need or desire to spend much more money right now.

If I was in a car buying phase/mood I'd already be at the dealers but tbh I'm not at the moment, nor am I in any particular rush to, nor do I particularly want to spend a load of money ...having said that I can't help but think to ignore this and the potential indefinitely would be foolish, I just stand to benefit from it at the end of the day, provided I accept diesel. It's just a scenario that has presented it's self and it's making me consider something I never really considered before, diesel :o ...because of the the scenario I described.

The way I am looking at it now, I have a car that is such stunningly good value for money right now, that I got for such a good price for what it offers ...that there is no way I can match it with diesel and hope to actually take advantage of this situation to actually save anything really. It's like I'm locked into it because it's so good for the money, nothing can come close for the money.

And yes Rilot, it could be an 8.4 litre detroit diesel that struggles with 20mpg ...it doesn't matter at all, it just has to be a diesel for me to take advantage of this in any way.

Actually Fox, nice as that BMW is, if I was going to bite the bullet and comit to one car for about 4 years and buy a 20k car, it'd be more like http://www.audi.co.uk/used-cars/use...on-trent/601249685-8469.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_ ...I like full sized luxury cars too much :) ...if I was going to drive a car with a diesel engine, which is dull as ditchwater imo, then I'd want it to be a really, really, really nice car that I wanted to spend time in.
 
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Sounds like you are going to have to either pay up front through finance a fair wack to get something equal to your Jag, go much smaller in size and not pay out as much (diesel Mondeo for £5k) or buy something that will be a potential money pit without a warranty (old 5/7 series, Merc, Audi for £5k-£10k).

I've no idea what I'd do because I know you won't be keen to drop down car classes.

BTW just think how much worse this situation would be if you'd got that Porsche!
 
Sorry mate, my point wasn't to come at it from another angle just that if you took the payrise but not the fuel card you would be just as well off but could keep your petrol car (or even upgrade!), which would be the best outcome to my mind.

I wouldn't take any finance out against a company-provided benefit at the moment because you just never know when things are going to go pear shaped. Having the cash is almost always better!

EDIT:

Have you done the sums for that £150-£170 taking into account the likely increase in MPG or is that £150-170 what you spend in fuel at the moment? This could be quite critical in determining if the BIK exceeds your projected fuel spend!
 
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