Associate
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The DANGERS of the Nurburgring
- Thread starter Lethagized
- Start date
The main difference between the ring and a normal UK track is that if I understand properly UK tracks are own risk, ie whatever happens to your car, you pay even if someone else caused the damage. On open days at the nurburgring if you cause an accident, you are legally obliged the same as if you were on a normal road to pay for damages, and with your insurance being invalidated, do you have potentially millions of pounds to pay for that veyron you didnt notice overtaking you, causing a pile up and track closure etc?
Correct me If I'm wrong about the UK track day liability stuff though!
Correct me If I'm wrong about the UK track day liability stuff though!
Yep I'm pretty sure that's right, this is why there is no chance I'd go round the nurburg. No way would I risk bankruptcy for 10 minutes of driving, Perhaps if I became a millionaire.
I think this is due to the Nurburgring being classified as a private road. Where UK tracks are just that... tracks. Where they have their own rules and aren't goverened by the Road Traffic Act (Or German equivalent).
Things have changed in the last few years.
It has always been assumed that your fully comp insurance would be null and void on the 'ring, regardless of whether it was explicitly excluded by your insurer, but it's also been assumed that, as it's a legal requirement on any public road, third-party cover would be valid, thus protecting you against claims against you.
AIUI, this has been put to the test recently and it's transpired that the third-party cover isn't a given after all. As Fox says, the insurer is still legally obliged to pay out but there's nothing to stop them pursuing you for the money and they often will.
I'm not sure if actual legal precedent has been established on this but there's now enough doubt to make you think very hard. If you write off someone's Ferrari or, worse still, seriously injure or kill someone, you could find yourself personally liable for the costs, which could run into seven figures.
A lot will depend on the figures involved. If you have a light smack and there's a relatively small claim against you from the third party, your insurer may just pay it and let it go. OTOH, if you end up with a six or seven figure claim for killing someone, do you really think the insurer is just going to pay it and let it go?
There's been a lot of discussion on this on the 'ring forums and a lot of hitherto regular visitors are re-evaluating as a result of it. It also appears that this is a curiously British phenomenon, and German insurers have no problems covering you for third-party claims there, resulting in some people with dedicated track cars investigating how they can register a car over there and thus insure it on a German policy.
As for UK track days, as I've never participated in one I don't know for sure, but I've heard that the insurance works entirely differently. Your normal policy is worth squat as it's a private road, but you can obviously take out dedicated track day insurance. From what I've been told, this operates on a "no blame" system where no one can claim off a third-party for anything. Your insurance covers you for your own claims and nothing else. If someone else writes off your car and it's entirely their fault, if you don't have insurance then you're screwed. This is all hearsay so I could be totally wrong here
It has always been assumed that your fully comp insurance would be null and void on the 'ring, regardless of whether it was explicitly excluded by your insurer, but it's also been assumed that, as it's a legal requirement on any public road, third-party cover would be valid, thus protecting you against claims against you.
AIUI, this has been put to the test recently and it's transpired that the third-party cover isn't a given after all. As Fox says, the insurer is still legally obliged to pay out but there's nothing to stop them pursuing you for the money and they often will.
I'm not sure if actual legal precedent has been established on this but there's now enough doubt to make you think very hard. If you write off someone's Ferrari or, worse still, seriously injure or kill someone, you could find yourself personally liable for the costs, which could run into seven figures.
A lot will depend on the figures involved. If you have a light smack and there's a relatively small claim against you from the third party, your insurer may just pay it and let it go. OTOH, if you end up with a six or seven figure claim for killing someone, do you really think the insurer is just going to pay it and let it go?
There's been a lot of discussion on this on the 'ring forums and a lot of hitherto regular visitors are re-evaluating as a result of it. It also appears that this is a curiously British phenomenon, and German insurers have no problems covering you for third-party claims there, resulting in some people with dedicated track cars investigating how they can register a car over there and thus insure it on a German policy.
As for UK track days, as I've never participated in one I don't know for sure, but I've heard that the insurance works entirely differently. Your normal policy is worth squat as it's a private road, but you can obviously take out dedicated track day insurance. From what I've been told, this operates on a "no blame" system where no one can claim off a third-party for anything. Your insurance covers you for your own claims and nothing else. If someone else writes off your car and it's entirely their fault, if you don't have insurance then you're screwed. This is all hearsay so I could be totally wrong here
Soldato
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I came in here expecting crash videos 
I can't see how it would to be honest. Sure many people may visit the ring without incident but being an effective track, the chance of accidents is far higher and the exuberance of consequences far higher.
Sky high premiums and high excesses are the only way it would become feasible. One big claim has the potential alone to write off any margin on all policies and quite likely make the company a massive loss.
For UK track days a standard road policy is unlikely to cover track days. Most track only polices seem to cover limited 3rd party liability and 1st party damage but with high excesses. If you chose to not get insurance then you're liable for any damage you cause to 3rd parties.
Soldato
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There are/were some, but the cost of the policies are/were silly and with the increased number of people going on the 'ring without insurance and costs of recovery etc., I think they were making a loss.
I thought it was a first party only affair at uk tracks? ie you only pay for damage to your own car in any given situation?
That's what I thought too.
Associate
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Not really i brought insurance for decades, recently my local insurance broker did me a policy for track days anywhere in Europe as long as its not timed or competitive event. All you have to do is pick up the phone and ring round; expecting to be covered by your everyday supermarket policy is laughable.
For competitive racing I have another policy which is considerably more expensive however it reflects costs and risks associated with competitive motorsport.
Always make clear distinction between timed and not timed events when asking for qoutes
Soldato
- Joined
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Not really i brought insurance for decades, recently my local insurance broker did me a policy for track days anywhere in Europe as long as its not timed or competitive event. All you have to do is pick up the phone and ring round; expecting to be covered by your everyday supermarket policy is laughable.
For competitive racing I have another policy which is considerably more expensive however it reflects costs and risks associated with competitive motorsport.
Always make clear distinction between timed and not timed events when asking for qoutes
First off, you bought it, secondly, read what I said and what the person I quoted said. They were asking about specific Nurburgring insurance, not general insurance that covers the Nurburgring. Also as has been said, most main stream companies have a disclaimer releasing places such as Nurburgring from their cover.
The normal person that will go to the Nurburgring is not doing a timed race or anything like that, they are just going out on the famous road/track for some fun.
Nope. If you damage someone else's property you're liable for it's repair, it doesn't matter where you are.
The RTA only covers public roads, not race tracks. You take your car on a track at your own risk, though you can buy insurance to cover damage to your own car if you wish.
Do you think BTCC teams start filling out claim forms at the end of each race?
It's nothing to do with the RTA, if I damage someone else's property they can claim for repair or replacement from me through the civil courts. If on a track day someone happened to hit and damage your car through no fault of yours, would you expect to have to pay to fix it? Or would you expect them to pay? What about if you were left crippled?
The BTCC teams will operate under an agreement to not claim for damages but they'll certainly have insurance to cover them in case they injure or kill someone.
Yes, you do have to expect to pay as that's the 'unwritten rules' as it were, of a track day - if you don't want to, you buy insurance to cover yourself.
If you don't want to do either, you don't take your car on the track.
As you say it's unwritten. Cause someone serious injury or damage a very expensive car and you will be either paying or bankrupt.
Of course it is, you are only legally bound to have insurance cover if you drive on public roads covered by the RTA.
Yes, absolutely I would, unless I'd taken out track day insurance. That's what "at own risk" means.
BTCC teams, and ANYONE involved in competitive motorsport, even at clubman level, will be well aware that if their car gets wrecked they will have to pay for it. If a car is damaged entirely through someone else's mistake they may well offer to pay for the damage, but they are certainly not legally bound to on a racetrack.
You seriously need to get your facts straight if you ever fancy a track day, otherwise you'll could have a very nasty surprise.
BTW, personal injury is different, track days are covered by public liability insurance.