ladbrokes, william hill and betfred.

G18241 · 5 Feb 2011 at 10:44

If a certain dog / football team / horse is hammered all day, and isnt particularly a favourite, then you get messages on your manager screen with limits etc

Also if you use the same bookies and place big bets, they will track your every bet / winnings / wether you take price

Bookies i used to work in, the second anyone placed a £100 they were monitored no matter what it was for

el_dazza · 5 Feb 2011 at 14:08

[TW]Fox;18391621 said:
Yet..

How odd. You talk like you are some sort of seasoned, experienced pro gambler yet in reality you've only been able to bet just over a year!

If I was a bookie and some 19 year old came in saying 'Need to get a price, wanna back a dog on!!! got the liquidity' I'd limit him to 50 quid as well.

I was quite knowledgeable about the betting industry before I was 18, and even more so since. Just because he's 19 doesn't mean he doesn't know a lot, although going on his tips for the world cup, I'd avoid whatever he's backing here

RadoX said:
clearly, taking SP online is going to be better. noob. also if i want to back on football i can have whatever i want this is the only exception to £50 at sp

Possibly because Football has higher limited payouts than Greyhound racing. Dogs IIRC are limited to a max payout of £50,000 at bookies and are usually subject to a lot of smaller bets. Football however is usually £500,000 (Ladbrokes £1m) and is subject to a lot of larger bets, and a vast number of markets.

RadoX said:
well after doing some research i can give you the following certs ;P

England to be top of group
England to win usa
conservatives to win the next general election

dead certs bros anyone else got any infinite betting wisdom they would like to share ?

also Kauto star netted me £90 Ive not lost a bet in about 2 months now since i only bet on things that cant fail ;P

FWIW - England were 4/9 to top their group, and came 2nd. England were 1/2 to beat USA, and drew 1-1. Conservatives were 1/12 to win, and did..

Amp34 · 5 Feb 2011 at 14:18

Dabbles said:
Why is a Masters degree 4 years long then?

They aren't. You'd be "lucky"* to find one for 2 years, most are 1 (whole) year.

Undergrad degrees can be 4 years but technically the integrated "masters" bit is only 6-9 months.

Either way after a year most of the initial learning probably has been done, you then just need have the rest of the lifetime to actually master it.

*By "lucky" I mean you'll have to pay twice the fees, and with the fees alone quite easily being £10k a year it's not that lucky.

Amp34 · 5 Feb 2011 at 14:20

kgi said:
I hope this assertion doesn't include surgeons as well. I wouldn't expect you to trust a surgeon with 1 year experience to cut you up!

Actually medical students only specialise in their later years of study, so someone cutting you up may well only have 1 years surgery experience (obviously they would be in there with someone more experienced).

It's all about the exponential curve.

RadoX · 5 Feb 2011 at 16:28

el_dazza said:
I was quite knowledgeable about the betting industry before I was 18, and even more so since. Just because he's 19 doesn't mean he doesn't know a lot, although going on his tips for the world cup, I'd avoid whatever he's backing here

Possibly because Football has higher limited payouts than Greyhound racing. Dogs IIRC are limited to a max payout of £50,000 at bookies and are usually subject to a lot of smaller bets. Football however is usually £500,000 (Ladbrokes £1m) and is subject to a lot of larger bets, and a vast number of markets.

FWIW - England were 4/9 to top their group, and came 2nd. England were 1/2 to beat USA, and drew 1-1. Conservatives were 1/12 to win, and did..

I don't back on football really unless i get rang up about "exceptional value" of a football bet which is very rare. ive stopped taking on shorties and going for more value based e/w bets and i get allot of info for dogs as family are licensed trainers. As for getting online accounts, asoon as your bets start getting put through to traders your always missing out as they will normally give you £50 - £100 at the price you requested and the rest at SP which is pretty much useless if your backing with information as the price will go out of the window about 10 minutes after you get rang up. Betfair is the way forward but there is still not enough early morning liquidity to get on.

RadoX · 5 Feb 2011 at 16:39

i backed WYCK HILL at 20s this morning E/W in the 4.40 very good value in this bet i thought it should have been 8 or 9/1 lets see what happens.

RadoX · 5 Feb 2011 at 16:55

it didnt even place but it was backed into 9/1 the true price it should have been

Diesel · 5 Feb 2011 at 16:59

Shouldn't you be spending your Job Seekers Allowance on your kids or something?

Viper² · 5 Feb 2011 at 17:07

RadoX said:
it didnt even place but it was backed into 9/1 the true price it should have been

Haha..

el_dazza · 5 Feb 2011 at 17:14

RadoX said:
i backed WYCK HILL at 20s this morning E/W in the 4.40 very good value in this bet i thought it should have been 8 or 9/1 lets see what happens.

Right, so why not do what smart players do?

Open a betfair account, get the price early enough if you think it's overpriced, set up a lay at shorter odds and enjoy the profit.

RadoX said:
As for getting online accounts, asoon as your bets start getting put through to traders your always missing out as they will normally give you £50 - £100 at the price you requested and the rest at SP which is pretty much useless if your backing with information as the price will go out of the window about 10 minutes after you get rang up. Betfair is the way forward but there is still not enough early morning liquidity to get on.

There's plenty of liquidity imo. As for the £100 max stuff, family members have got bigger than that on, no questions asked in the past. My dad had £200 e-w on an 8/1 shot with no problems, and it placed.

Why not do a bit of arbing too? You'll need a lot of accounts in a lot of places but these crop up quite often, surprisingly. One cracker over Christmas was this:

PDC darts world championship - 170 checkout. Yes was 2/7 with most bookies, 9/4 no. However Ladbrokes went 12/1 for No! Stick £69.23 on the 12/1 and £700 on the 2/7 for an outlay of £769.23, and you'll get £900 back because there's only 2 outcomes and you've covered both. 17% ROI for doing nothing.

dowie · 5 Feb 2011 at 17:17

fini said:
Hmm, it sounds more like they think you've got a gambling problem and have limited you for your own good.

Sounds more like they've limited him due to certain past winnings arousing suspicion. If I were the OP I'd look at other markets on betfair if there really isn't the liquidity you require in this one. Though perhpas there is a reason why the OP is specifically looking at greyhounds, perhpas some information advantage - which would be why the bookies have banned him in the first place.

dowie · 5 Feb 2011 at 17:19

Dabbles said:
Why is a Masters degree 4 years long then?

Its usually 1 year long and taken after your 3 year undergrad degree.

Though yes there are 4 year courses resulting in a masters (for funding purposes) as they incorporate a 3 year bachelors into the course too.

Loony-Luke · 5 Feb 2011 at 17:47

I say bet all your money on snail racing its high impact, violent and very fast paste game!

newbiejim · 5 Feb 2011 at 17:59

betting on dogs is VERY difficult, bookies have a massive edge (unless of course as you say you have information) as compared with horse racing, selected races of course, just sayin........ on a 12 runner horse race the book is 112% (meaning the bookie will pay out £100 for every £112 taken), with the dogs it is typically 135%..........in summary, bet in small to average field horse races, all IMHO of course :-)

Dabbles · 5 Feb 2011 at 18:08

dowie said:
Though yes there are 4 year courses resulting in a masters (for funding purposes) as they incorporate a 3 year bachelors into the course too.

But you could just graduate with a Masters after year 1 according to our misguided friend!

RadoX · 5 Feb 2011 at 19:16

newbiejim said:
betting on dogs is VERY difficult, bookies have a massive edge (unless of course as you say you have information) as compared with horse racing, selected races of course, just sayin........ on a 12 runner horse race the book is 112% (meaning the bookie will pay out £100 for every £112 taken), with the dogs it is typically 135%..........in summary, bet in small to average field horse races, all IMHO of course

The average book at SP on a dog race is 160% nearly everywhere. if you take every bookmakers prices on a horse race in the uk you will get under a 105% book nearly every race if you factor betting exchanges into it you can get 98% or even lower books then if you backed everything right you could make 2% guaranteed, before the race started. el_dazza i know about trading on betfair and i sometimes do but i actually fancied that to place. I could get whatever i wanted on until recently where ive started getting limited and its a pain. also ive arbed before that just gets you limited to ridiculous stuff like 98p in about a week.

RadoX · 5 Feb 2011 at 19:22

If any of you understand "value bets" there's so much EW value to be had in races with a shortie at odds on or evens and rest of the field 5/1 or more in 8 runner maidens or novice hurdles etc. Most shop's have to ring up if your having more than a tenner E/W in these races.im sure anyone who works in a bookies will know about "carefull each-way races" and having to ring the BAC up. now instead of ringing the BAC up just to see if i can get on its a instant refusal.

newbiejim · 6 Feb 2011 at 10:29

RadoX said:
The average book at SP on a dog race is 160% nearly everywhere. if you take every bookmakers prices on a horse race in the uk you will get under a 105% book nearly every race if you factor betting exchanges into it you can get 98% or even lower books then if you backed everything right you could make 2% guaranteed, before the race started. el_dazza i know about trading on betfair and i sometimes do but i actually fancied that to place. I could get whatever i wanted on until recently where ive started getting limited and its a pain. also ive arbed before that just gets you limited to ridiculous stuff like 98p in about a week.

I think arbing was more lucrative in the early days of exchanges, def difficult to get an edge now. I pretty much bet for fun now but had my betfair account in consistent profit for years, not thousands but my strike rate was good. I found tho that when I increased stakes I over studied and my MO changed, essentially the pressure freaked me lol. Looking forward to Cheltenham

el_dazza · 6 Feb 2011 at 11:42

RadoX said:
If any of you understand "value bets" there's so much EW value to be had in races with a shortie at odds on or evens and rest of the field 5/1 or more in 8 runner maidens or novice hurdles etc. Most shop's have to ring up if your having more than a tenner E/W in these races.im sure anyone who works in a bookies will know about "carefull each-way races" and having to ring the BAC up. now instead of ringing the BAC up just to see if i can get on its a instant refusal.

Maybe for you, for us normal folk we can get more than a tenner on no problem. Even still, last Sunday there was an example like this:

3:25 | 2 Caught By Witness (W Marston, 4-6 fav); 1 Alonso de Guzman (R Johnson, 5-1 2nd-fav); 8 Salut Honore (S P Jones, 18-1)

Backing the 2nd fav E-W returns your stake, as it's 1/5 the odds. Backing the 18/1 is chancy as there was an 8/1, a 10/1 and a 14/1 between the 2nd fav and the 18/1 in the betting. Where's the value..?

RadoX · 7 Feb 2011 at 12:46

el_dazza said:
Maybe for you, for us normal folk we can get more than a tenner on no problem. Even still, last Sunday there was an example like this:

3:25 | 2 Caught By Witness (W Marston, 4-6 fav); 1 Alonso de Guzman (R Johnson, 5-1 2nd-fav); 8 Salut Honore (S P Jones, 18-1)

Backing the 2nd fav E-W returns your stake, as it's 1/5 the odds. Backing the 18/1 is chancy as there was an 8/1, a 10/1 and a 14/1 between the 2nd fav and the 18/1 in the betting. Where's the value..?

i wouldn't have backed in that race as you said there was no value in the odds, also that was SP, prices would have been bigger earlier in the day.

heres one of the races im actually on about that i think got me limited.
http://www.racingpost.com/horses2/cards/card.sd?race_id=522785&r_date=2011-02-07

Now since prices have been up since between 9 - 11 depending on the firm the market has adjusted and all the E/W value has gone. Wolverhampton should be a easy enough day today even if your a mug punter backing in every race you should be able to just about find the winner in every race.

2.25 DESERT STRIKE 5/1 E/W
3.00 BLACKRIVER BOY 8/1 E/W
3.30 ORPENINDEED 4/7 WIN
4.05 TEWIN WOOD 6/1 E/W
4.35 SYRIAN 6/4 WIN
5.05 CHRISTMAS COMING 9/2 E/W yes i know its 1/5th the odds.
5.35 COTTON KING 2/1 WIN

Now i wont be backing singles in 6 of these races that is just my place pot as i think its a easy meeting where a few of the Favourites may come unplaced raising the dividend. Ive Backed COTTON KING in the last as BROUGHTONS PARADIS seems to have little market strength.