Nothing like a load of Ritalin to give you a buzz.
Interesting documentary about cannabis
- Thread starter neocon
- Start date
Nothing like a load of Ritalin to give you a buzz.
Wrong - pretty much none of it does. It's easy to tell because you can see the manufacturing impurities in it, which would not be present in a pharmaceutical grade product. You can even work out what process was used to make the stuff - and it's not the usual legal one.
M
It's not wrong, you see people selling adderall capsules and dexedrine tablets all the time. ADHD is an insanely common diagnosis in the USA and many people prescribed it sell it for money.
Ah - you're talking about the US? It may well be true over there because there's no real market for amphetamine - meth has that sector. The diverted amphet would be for the less hardcore: the kind of users who will take just about anything. It's not true in Europe because amphet has the sector, not meth, and there's plenty of organised clandestine manufacture of amphet.
M
People say they're addicted, but is it that they are really addicted to the tobacco they mix with the cannabis?
I know people that have gone mental because of cannabis, or so they claim. Is it not the case that they would have been mental slobs had they not been smoking cannabis? How can you prove it?
I know people that have gone mental because of cannabis, or so they claim. Is it not the case that they would have been mental slobs had they not been smoking cannabis? How can you prove it?
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 Jul 2006
- Posts
- 3,371
- Location
- Hell!! \m/
It's awkward with drugs it's very two sided. Now don't get me wrong I love a few oxys, bit of hash, few md pills, bit of gbl, few benny benzos and couple of bags to go with my wines and lines!!
but I've always been sensible and careful with my use and the reality is most people just don't care about their own bodies to research into what they are taking. I think all drugs be it pregabalin, marijuana or codeine have negatives to them but smart, educated use can numb some - all the side effects
There is PROs and CONs to everything at the end of the day.
For example: it's great Mephedrone is illegal beacause............
* SOME people have stopped using it
* It caused a lot of people/families havoc with addiction
* it was dangerous/harmful to some degree (bluing limbs and serious cardio toxic side effects)
but lets look on the other side........
* People will still use it regardless of quality. So banning is more troublesome
* when it was legal most MP was 4MMC and only cut by some dodgy dealers - now a lot if MP is cut or some other chemical like 4MEC
* Even though there was a black market still - there's an even BIGGER one now.
There's too many other other points but I have to finish trying to make my wrists bigger for my new watch to fit. Other arguments are for legal/scripted heroin/diamorphine, legal 'erb.
One thing is that the use of a substance should remain legal as there seem less ill effects from it.
as to cannabis addiction - it DOES exist - not like Cocaine and Heroin but it's still existent. I think the thing with it is that MOST users find it is not a problem but there is a few users that suffer. While Heroin and Cocaine have higher %% of users that are addicts. I think some people who are unmotivated enough to find work or don't have money or family because of the 'erb are classed as being addicted and not just because people are addicted in the classic sense of withdrawal.
but I've always been sensible and careful with my use and the reality is most people just don't care about their own bodies to research into what they are taking. I think all drugs be it pregabalin, marijuana or codeine have negatives to them but smart, educated use can numb some - all the side effects
There is PROs and CONs to everything at the end of the day.
For example: it's great Mephedrone is illegal beacause............
* SOME people have stopped using it
* It caused a lot of people/families havoc with addiction
* it was dangerous/harmful to some degree (bluing limbs and serious cardio toxic side effects)
but lets look on the other side........
* People will still use it regardless of quality. So banning is more troublesome
* when it was legal most MP was 4MMC and only cut by some dodgy dealers - now a lot if MP is cut or some other chemical like 4MEC
* Even though there was a black market still - there's an even BIGGER one now.
There's too many other other points but I have to finish trying to make my wrists bigger for my new watch to fit. Other arguments are for legal/scripted heroin/diamorphine, legal 'erb.
One thing is that the use of a substance should remain legal as there seem less ill effects from it.
as to cannabis addiction - it DOES exist - not like Cocaine and Heroin but it's still existent. I think the thing with it is that MOST users find it is not a problem but there is a few users that suffer. While Heroin and Cocaine have higher %% of users that are addicts. I think some people who are unmotivated enough to find work or don't have money or family because of the 'erb are classed as being addicted and not just because people are addicted in the classic sense of withdrawal.
Last edited:
looooooool
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 Jul 2006
- Posts
- 3,371
- Location
- Hell!! \m/
Pretty much what Tom said - to one degree it's not addictive like you'll get withdrawals or feel ill without - most people who cannie get mj will simply move on with their life. There are a lot of people though who still admit it IS causing them a problem some can do something about it, but some can't.
I'm currently addicted to hitting the gym now - last weekend my mum took my weights and I was dangerously working out with heavy equipment like quad blasting and the tv set, I've spent all my jobseekers AGAIN on protein powders and cretine supplments - for Wednesday I battled with the kids at the local park to work out in (was tire flippin'). It was good at first - I had health benifits, etc,etc but now it's causing me more harm than good but I can something about it - I spoke to my doctor who is an idoit and doesn't understand the amount of trouble it's caused me - haven't even spoke to my dad in a 4 days although some was his fault I think I should make up.
and YES I have experienced addiction I was hooked on benzos for a bit, then full blown gbl dependent 50-60ml/day for years which left me in hospital from withdrawal with doctors feeding me midazolam IVed which still never worked fully the dotors basically called me a nuttjob and I had a very serious medical although it usually does I ended up getting gbl in the end (illegally) and leaving I tapered off gbl with the use of pregabalin then used opites to stay off and then......guess what? then addicted to opiates like heroin, oxycodone (+IV user), addicted to pregabalin too (BEFORE USING TO WEAN OFF G - I started off e-dosing Pregabalin with a friend every Friday - he only did on Fridays but my use spiraled to other days).
The point is drugs have very unexpected effects on people - what is considered addiction to ONE is addiction to another. What is dangerious to one is worse or safe to another. I am still using but more-so at the weekends I am keeping fit - cycling a lot too which I enjoy more than all the drugs combined. My life has not been DISTROYED by them or enchanced but rather had it's ups and downs and most of my friends agree.
However I am talking about general drug use and not cannabis!
I'm currently addicted to hitting the gym now - last weekend my mum took my weights and I was dangerously working out with heavy equipment like quad blasting and the tv set, I've spent all my jobseekers AGAIN on protein powders and cretine supplments - for Wednesday I battled with the kids at the local park to work out in (was tire flippin'). It was good at first - I had health benifits, etc,etc but now it's causing me more harm than good but I can something about it - I spoke to my doctor who is an idoit and doesn't understand the amount of trouble it's caused me - haven't even spoke to my dad in a 4 days although some was his fault I think I should make up.
and YES I have experienced addiction I was hooked on benzos for a bit, then full blown gbl dependent 50-60ml/day for years which left me in hospital from withdrawal with doctors feeding me midazolam IVed which still never worked fully the dotors basically called me a nuttjob and I had a very serious medical although it usually does I ended up getting gbl in the end (illegally) and leaving I tapered off gbl with the use of pregabalin then used opites to stay off and then......guess what? then addicted to opiates like heroin, oxycodone (+IV user), addicted to pregabalin too (BEFORE USING TO WEAN OFF G - I started off e-dosing Pregabalin with a friend every Friday - he only did on Fridays but my use spiraled to other days).
The point is drugs have very unexpected effects on people - what is considered addiction to ONE is addiction to another. What is dangerious to one is worse or safe to another. I am still using but more-so at the weekends I am keeping fit - cycling a lot too which I enjoy more than all the drugs combined. My life has not been DISTROYED by them or enchanced but rather had it's ups and downs and most of my friends agree.
However I am talking about general drug use and not cannabis!
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 4 Mar 2010
- Posts
- 5,038
A friend of mine was a pot smoker, I was too for that matter. From smoking dope he has developed schizophrenia. Granted, he used to smoke a lot, we are trying to work out if he was already predisposed and the pot activated it or if it was just down to the pot completely.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste and I think if it was much more freely available - more people would become victim to it.
I feel very conflicted about it, I like the idea of personal freedom but what has happened to my friend makes me very sad he's lost his spark, hears voices and will have to spend the rest of his life medicated.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste and I think if it was much more freely available - more people would become victim to it.
I feel very conflicted about it, I like the idea of personal freedom but what has happened to my friend makes me very sad he's lost his spark, hears voices and will have to spend the rest of his life medicated.
The idea that more people will smoke it if it is legalised is ridiculous when one realises how easy it is to grow or purchase already, except at the moment its criminals that are pocketing the money and benefiting instead of the public safety and the tax man.
Best place to start, its a plant that produces thc (and other stuff) and when inhaled/digested and so on acts as a drug (not the best worded point) but it is a drug, it has a chemical effect on your mood and personality that is out of your hands.
What I am trying to argue is that it is impractical to legalise something that has never been legal in the sense that anyone can just do it, like walking. It is something that can not be regulated to ensure that, for example, a train driver cant turn up to work baked or (what we used to call) monged over (where your drowsey and not really with it the next day) and can't performance their work properly.
And we have a sensible point about cannabis use, what the main point is that addiction exists in forms out side of chemical dependencies. What I have found through personal experience is a social dependency is very common with weed and has just as many negative effects as a physical dependency.
This is very similar to what happened to my good mate, though he had to spend 2 months at the end of last year in a mental institute for not being able to cope. He's responded fairly well to the medication but at least has started to get some real personality back because he's not getting baked.
Some times I think we have to remember that there arnt countries where this is explicitly legal, the are just 2 attitudes towards drugs, either making the users criminals or addicts. In no situation can drugs be legalised to a point where its like your freedom to watch a disturbing film or play a game or eating too much as this will have too many negative effects on the position of the state and the way the health service works.
Last edited:
As this is essentially a UK-based BBS, and most posters are British, I assumed that you meant that the medication was being diverted from the US to the UK. Not that a the US was taking the stuff. I would also guess that in the US it's a tiny part of the overall drugs market: amphet seizures never rate a mention in Microgram.
M
Mephedrone is not a typical example (perhaps). First, it is almost never cut with 4MEC. 4MEC is a novelty almost never seen in the UK - there are far more popular beta-ketones around. I'll agree the stuff is now being cut though. Just not with that. And actually the amount of MMC around is dropping a lot. Interviews from when the stuff was legal suggested that a significant proportion of users took the stuff because, and only because, it was legal. Once the stuff was banned they moved onto other things like MDPV, until that was banned. Now it's MDAI and the rest of the amino-indanes, until they get banned. Which raises a thorny issue: can we be sure that everyone that might take a drug if it was legalised is already doing so? The druggies will say yes, but the mephedrone example suggested that maybe not. Witness all the people who moved from MDMA to the piperazines while they remained legal, but moved away again once they got banned.
M
Is MDAI even popular? Judging by it's MoA I honestly can't imagine it being that pleasurable.
It's a difficult one; one thing I know is that when I smoked it as a youth I wanted it legalised but now I am older I'm not so sure.
The argument over whether it should be legal for medical purposes is null; of course it should be and the pharma's are trying to derive the active compounds from it for those very purposes. Remember government has a duty to ensure that drugs given to people as medicine have well understood side effects and do not cause additional harm; as this thread clearly shows no one really knows the negative effects of long term use. This is why government doesn't legalise heroin for medical use but uses morphine which is a derivative of it. I think people would have a differnet perception if people with MS were jacking up....and claiming they have a right to use it for medical purposes.
Government, strangely enough also has a moral duty to society; it can't be seen to be advocating the free use of drugs. What would happen if the drugs were legalised and something terrible happened? Who would b blamed? People who say that people who smoke weed are too stoned to bother anybody are living on a different planet, have you never seen a paranoid on weed? It's neither a pretty nor safe sight.
Those who say it's not as bad as alcohol or tobacco are missing the point. Those drugs were never illegal in the first place and to revert the law after centuries of cultural obsession with them would be tantamount to political suicide, regardless of the "scientific" facts that they are more damaging.
Which leads to the final point; decisions like these are not made on the basis of scientific evidence (which in all honesty is not particularly clear) they are made on the weight of scientific evidence balanced against political opinion and interests. If you advocate that decisions should be made on scientific evidence solely (which seems to be one of the main jists here) then would you also like decisions about you made on that basis? Think genetics and such. If science said you had a 75% chance to have a stroke by the time you were 50 do you think it correct that you should be refused life insurance based on the scientific facts that you are likely to die around the age of 50?
The argument over whether it should be legal for medical purposes is null; of course it should be and the pharma's are trying to derive the active compounds from it for those very purposes. Remember government has a duty to ensure that drugs given to people as medicine have well understood side effects and do not cause additional harm; as this thread clearly shows no one really knows the negative effects of long term use. This is why government doesn't legalise heroin for medical use but uses morphine which is a derivative of it. I think people would have a differnet perception if people with MS were jacking up....and claiming they have a right to use it for medical purposes.
Government, strangely enough also has a moral duty to society; it can't be seen to be advocating the free use of drugs. What would happen if the drugs were legalised and something terrible happened? Who would b blamed? People who say that people who smoke weed are too stoned to bother anybody are living on a different planet, have you never seen a paranoid on weed? It's neither a pretty nor safe sight.
Those who say it's not as bad as alcohol or tobacco are missing the point. Those drugs were never illegal in the first place and to revert the law after centuries of cultural obsession with them would be tantamount to political suicide, regardless of the "scientific" facts that they are more damaging.
Which leads to the final point; decisions like these are not made on the basis of scientific evidence (which in all honesty is not particularly clear) they are made on the weight of scientific evidence balanced against political opinion and interests. If you advocate that decisions should be made on scientific evidence solely (which seems to be one of the main jists here) then would you also like decisions about you made on that basis? Think genetics and such. If science said you had a 75% chance to have a stroke by the time you were 50 do you think it correct that you should be refused life insurance based on the scientific facts that you are likely to die around the age of 50?
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 Jul 2006
- Posts
- 3,371
- Location
- Hell!! \m/
No, 4MEC is very common at the moment THROUGH OUT EU - WELL KNOWN CHINESE SUPPLIERS ARE SELLING 4MEC AS 4MEC and MORE THAN JUST ONE. 4MMC was made illegal in the UK but was still very easy to get!! it wasn't until it was banned in most of EU and even CHINA it became more and more common. My friend receives this stuff in large amounts and it is long and shardy -he brings it into the country himself - what means it's common is he has seen other people with HIS EXACT batch too (long+shardy) in some cases the 4MEC has been cut down further with more chems.
How is it 4MEC? He had lab test done.
I have used this stuff myself and the effects to me are very similer to decent 4MMC but shorter duration is noted and some other side effects - other people report more side effects.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 10,648
All I can say is zolpiden + alcohol and possible valium has been a bad combination. Those are all quite easy to get hold of....