After seeing the Rebels on the news today fighting with each other with the dilemma of what to do next, it truly is a shambles. The rebels have no command structure, no leader/leaders. So just who on earth are we going to be dealing with if the coalition succeeds in its mission to get rid of Gaddafi?
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Please explain the differences to Iraq beyond the geographic location? The differences to Kosovo are obvious.
I'm stuggling to see the differences to Iraq, we have taken sides and decided to remove the countries leader (I know they say it's just to save civillians but reading bettween the lines it's obvious Cameron will accept nothing but regieme change) The country like Iraq has an inherently unstable make up of people from different tribes/groups/religions and the oposition are an unknown and un organised mess.
Inocent casualties are still mounting up now it's just on both sides.
Tell me how we get out of this quickly and simply and leave behind a stable country as I really can't see it and everything I've heard world leaders say supports my lack of faith!
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Soldato
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Gadaf had tanks on the edge of town and had claimed that he was going to clear the city house by house was "coming tonight" and there "won't be any mercy"
those French jets saved lives
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differences to Iraq :
UN resolution
Arab League backing
Almost unanimous world backing
No talk of invasion
No talk of regime change
we have "taken the side" of the people, against the Government
you keep going on about how its a civil war - its not, its a popular revolution
all we need to do is provide the cover to allow the people to have their revolution and sort out what they want to do themselves
those French jets saved lives
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differences to Iraq :
UN resolution
Arab League backing
Almost unanimous world backing
No talk of invasion
No talk of regime change
we have "taken the side" of the people, against the Government
you keep going on about how its a civil war - its not, its a popular revolution
all we need to do is provide the cover to allow the people to have their revolution and sort out what they want to do themselves
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Was he talking about civilians or the rebels forces that are engaged in the conflict?
Man of Honour
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Probably a continued civil war
Anyone that had a gun in their house would be killed from what I remember. I am sure one of you can find the speech around here somewhere.
Soldato
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the rebels for the most part are civilians (other than some defected army units)
they are just people with liberated guns
thats why they are getting the snot beaten out of them by Gaddafi
look at the tv footage they are normal people wearing football shirts carrying rifles
they are just people with liberated guns
thats why they are getting the snot beaten out of them by Gaddafi
look at the tv footage they are normal people wearing football shirts carrying rifles
We haven't taken the side of 'the people' - we've taken the side of one faction, one tribe of people, who NEVER supported Gaddafi.
As one of the American generals said on TV, once those so-called civilians pick up guns, get into tanks, etc. in HIS view and in mine, they are no longer civilians and they are NOT to be protected under the UN resolution.
There maybe a resolution, you can judge for yourself the worth of it.
As for the Arab League backing, that is debatable, there are lots of reports of unrest amongst them. There has been no offensive action taken by an Arab League nation as of today, Qatar do have 4 Mirage planes available though, is this just a token gesture?
As for regime change and an invasion, the idea that Gadaffi will be left to rule, is in my opinion laughable.
There will also be troops on the ground, there has to be otherwise there is no way to stop the killings that are taking place, you can't take out a man with a gun from 10,000 feet.
Finally as dirtydog has said, we have sided with an armed militia.
Soldato
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we have taken the side of the people not one faction
look at the map, rebel cities are all over the country
dont you think its a coincidence that Tripoli is both full of armed african mercenaries and gadaffis forces and that rebel sentiment is non existant? id keep my mouth shut too
I agree that picking up a rifle makes you a target but letting him roll tanks into a city to cleanse the streets would be horrific, the threats he was making would have scared a lot of people into picking up guns
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so we dont have a resolution and people proclaim the war is illegal
we get a resolution and you say its worthless ? cant win can they?
arab league backing was there when it started and has been reaffairmed every day since, even getting just their backing is a massive step forwards compaired to their usual attitude
Invasion / change is not for us to instigate - its for Libya to work out
If the no fly zone works - it will because the Gaddaffi forces will be too scared to fight and down weapons, Gadaffi can be as bold and unwavering as he likes - his forces wont have the same confidence with bombs falling
we have sided with the people who have picked up weapons to protect themselves from their own government
look at the map, rebel cities are all over the country
dont you think its a coincidence that Tripoli is both full of armed african mercenaries and gadaffis forces and that rebel sentiment is non existant? id keep my mouth shut too
I agree that picking up a rifle makes you a target but letting him roll tanks into a city to cleanse the streets would be horrific, the threats he was making would have scared a lot of people into picking up guns
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so we dont have a resolution and people proclaim the war is illegal
we get a resolution and you say its worthless ? cant win can they?
arab league backing was there when it started and has been reaffairmed every day since, even getting just their backing is a massive step forwards compaired to their usual attitude
Invasion / change is not for us to instigate - its for Libya to work out
If the no fly zone works - it will because the Gaddaffi forces will be too scared to fight and down weapons, Gadaffi can be as bold and unwavering as he likes - his forces wont have the same confidence with bombs falling
we have sided with the people who have picked up weapons to protect themselves from their own government
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The rebels are civilians when it suits the powers that be. Watch the Hilary Clinton interview.
A group of people that have come together to fight Gaddafi, could that not be classed as a faction or a militia?
Well most of them are.
So define for me at what point a rebel becomes a civilian and a civilian becomes a rebel.
Soldato
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the question is do you trust Gaddafi to tell the difference?
your going to be dealing with whoever out of the countries militia are the most brutal and feared.
enjoy your nw libya with a more messed up leader than gaddafi is now
Define younger, I'm 38, is that young to you?
I think there is overwhelming evidence of how the West conducts its foreign policy and therefore why their stated reasons for this military intervention cannot be trusted or taken at face value.
I'm 39 you young scamp
Yes, there is evidence to say where we have gone wrong in the past. However, that's all that everyone focuses on. What about where our interventions do bring benefit? That quickly gets forgotten whilst the bad headlines stay in everyone's minds.
Previous bad foreign policy shouldn't prevent us from trying to do what is right.
i dont care what anyone says this war is wrong.
they are militia without any control who can barely stop arguing between themselfs for long enough to come up with a plan of wether to move up a road or to move back as captured on camera by journalists.
what do you think is going to happen if gaddafi is gone and theres a huge vacume? its going to be filled by lots of different milita/relgious groups all arguing between each other.
its another country not yet ready for democracy some of these middle east/african countries need a ruler with an iron fist to stop all of the different tribes fighting amongst themselfs.
what was suposed to be a no fly zone to protect civilians has turned into a lets bomb gaddafi's military no matter haw far away from the rebels it is and let the rebels be our ground force......
obama making demands that will never be met like telling gaddafi to leave miserata etc when the rebels dont control them...
why should he be forced to hand over cities to the militia? if anything the rebels should have been told to stay in benghazi its obvious who broke the ceasefires its the bloody rebels they are the ones advancing across the country and obama knows it as hes encouraging it all!
one day the west is going to get whats coming to it, lets all hope once china are thre worlds military super power they act much better towards us than america did to all of the little countries it thought it could manipulate with the help of europe.
they are militia without any control who can barely stop arguing between themselfs for long enough to come up with a plan of wether to move up a road or to move back as captured on camera by journalists.
what do you think is going to happen if gaddafi is gone and theres a huge vacume? its going to be filled by lots of different milita/relgious groups all arguing between each other.
its another country not yet ready for democracy some of these middle east/african countries need a ruler with an iron fist to stop all of the different tribes fighting amongst themselfs.
what was suposed to be a no fly zone to protect civilians has turned into a lets bomb gaddafi's military no matter haw far away from the rebels it is and let the rebels be our ground force......
obama making demands that will never be met like telling gaddafi to leave miserata etc when the rebels dont control them...
why should he be forced to hand over cities to the militia? if anything the rebels should have been told to stay in benghazi its obvious who broke the ceasefires its the bloody rebels they are the ones advancing across the country and obama knows it as hes encouraging it all!
one day the west is going to get whats coming to it, lets all hope once china are thre worlds military super power they act much better towards us than america did to all of the little countries it thought it could manipulate with the help of europe.
So you would have been happy for us not to go in and then watch as Gaddafi went into Benghazi and slaughtered even more civilians?
There's ruling with an iron fist, and then there's being an insane, murderous ****.
they arent civilians they are militia/rebels or terrorists if it happens in the west.
they could easy have stoped anyone attacking benghazi and tole the rebels not to advance forward or they wont be helped.
but instead the french bomb a bunch of tanks/arty peices near benghazi and then america cones in all heavy handed as usual and starts blowing up any tiny military building it can wether its a threat to civilians or not.
its all a joke and the only goal is the removal of gaddafi its nothing to do with helping civilians, feel free to fool yourself though , dont worry it will be a better country and the the milita take over.... its not like they are fighting amongst themselfs allready ... oh wait...
they could easy have stoped anyone attacking benghazi and tole the rebels not to advance forward or they wont be helped.
but instead the french bomb a bunch of tanks/arty peices near benghazi and then america cones in all heavy handed as usual and starts blowing up any tiny military building it can wether its a threat to civilians or not.
its all a joke and the only goal is the removal of gaddafi its nothing to do with helping civilians, feel free to fool yourself though , dont worry it will be a better country and the the milita take over.... its not like they are fighting amongst themselfs allready ... oh wait...
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