Poll: DELETED_74993

[albert]

..just wondering what would happen if China or Russia carpet bombed Bahrain or Yemen without our approval .... strange how the UN seen very keen on who rules each little country .. lets hope the sleeping giants don't wake up ....

 

[reefoid]

they arent civilians they are militia/rebels or terrorists if it happens in the west.

they could easy have stoped anyone attacking benghazi and tole the rebels not to advance forward or they wont be helped.

but instead the french bomb a bunch of tanks/arty peices near benghazi and then america cones in all heavy handed as usual and starts blowing up any tiny military building it can wether its a threat to civilians or not.

its all a joke and the only goal is the removal of gaddafi its nothing to do with helping civilians, feel free to fool yourself though , dont worry it will be a better country and the the milita take over.... its not like they are fighting amongst themselfs allready ... oh wait...

So none of the estimated 200,000 who have fled SINCE the UN action started were civilians? Gaddafi's lot were already in the city, it would have been a bloodbath.

 

[arknor]

yea they fled after the militia turned the country and cities into a war zone.

they are rebels using gureilla warfare which means blending in with civilians when it doesnt suit them to fight many will die as civilians then they were really firing ak47's a few minutes earlier.

america has done the same crap to the taliban towns but they pay the family a small sum of USD for any civilian death......

maybe gaddafi should offer a few hundred $ to the families of any civilians killed it works for america.

lets not even get into black water cruising around iraq shooting random cars for fun and posting the videos on youtube eh

 

[reefoid]

Whatever, can't be bothered to debate this anymore. Too many lentil munchers in here.

 

[a1ex2001]

So none of the estimated 200,000 who have fled SINCE the UN action started were civilians? Gaddafi's lot were already in the city, it would have been a bloodbath.

Is there actually any real evidence that Gaddafi was planning to exterminate 100 of thousands of inocent civillians? From what I see he is using his over whelming military power to brutally crush an armed uprising in the country he rules. Anyone holding a gun is not a civilian really are they? Not saying Gaddafi is a saint but I've just not seen the evidence for a targetted slaughter of un-armed civillians on a large scale.

200,000 may have fled the country an awful lot of whom were forign workers who rightly want nothing to do with the place or the risk of death. Others have fled because living in a war zone isn't nice and the risks are huge no matter who the combatants are ask the thousands killed by allied forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

To those who say we haven't taken sides we clearly have Gaddafi and his regieme clearly have an large support base within the country but we have decided to support the unkown rebels who fight against him.

 

[Tefal]

So define for me at what point a rebel becomes a civilian and a civilian becomes a rebel.

when you take the gun from the corpse and report them as a innocent civilian killed.

 

[arknor]

To those who say we haven't taken sides we clearly have Gaddafi and his regieme clearly have an large support base within the country but we have decided to support the unkown rebels who fight against him.

seemed like a good idea at the time to most of the countries involved...

bet it seems like a really bad idea when they learnt how disorganised the rebels are.

no wonder america is beeing so heavy handed bombing everything and now wanted a small role they know its gone from a war which could be over quickly into something which might never be won.

gaddafi assination attemps already failed they are bricking another long war which its people wont want.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

As one of the American generals said on TV, once those so-called civilians pick up guns, get into tanks, etc. in HIS view and in mine, they are no longer civilians and they are NOT to be protected under the UN resolution.

Well, the protests didn't work did they - what else are people supposed to do? I guess you are someone who would just hide in a basement and let enerything happen.

the question is do you trust Gaddafi to tell the difference?

I certainly don't.

 

[arknor]

Well, the protests didn't work did they - what else are people supposed to do? I guess you are someone who would just hide in a basement and let enerything happen.

so why arent we in any of the other half dozen countries that are murdering protestors? real protestors that arent armed with guns , tanks and 2 jets

 

[coltpython3]

very interesting crosstalk from RT

http://rt.com/programs/crosstalk/crosstalk-creepy-mission-benchmark/


the american is so arrogant!

 

[CaptainRAVE]

so why arent we in any of the other half dozen countries that are murdering protestors? real protestors that arent armed with guns , tanks and 2 jets

I would love to know that myself. Same question of why Iraq and not N. Korea and the like (although we all know why with that one).

 

[a1ex2001]

seemed like a good idea at the time to most of the countries involved...

bet it seems like a really bad idea when they learnt how disorganised the rebels are.

no wonder america is beeing so heavy handed bombing everything and now wanted a small role they know its gone from a war which could be over quickly into something which might never be won.

gaddafi assination attemps already failed they are bricking another long war which its people wont want.

Why did it seem like a good idea though, who really thinks that one armed militia running a country will be any better than another. The rebels have no political experience, no manifesto and have just made a lot of noise about democracy and freedom with very little concrete evidence they believe in either.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Why did it seem like a good idea though, who really thinks that one armed militia running a country will be any better than another. The rebels have no political experience, no manifesto and have just made a lot of noise about democracy and freedom with very little concrete evidence they believe in either.

PARIS — Libya's rebel national council wants to establish a secular democracy that would respect oil contracts awarded under Muammar Gaddafi if it toppled the Libyan leader, members of the council said in Paris.

Ali Zeidan, one of 31 members of the Libyan National Council, told reporters the rebels could overcome Gaddafi's forces in ten days if the coalition of Western powers continued its U.N.-mandated strikes.

Allied warplanes silenced Gaddafi's artillery and tanks besieging the rebel-held town of Misrata Wednesday after a U.S. admiral warned the Libyan leader's armor was now in the cross-hairs.

"We want the elimination of the Gaddafi regime to be done by the Libyans themselves," Zeidan said in Paris late Tuesday, adding that he wanted the international community to train and arm the rebel fighters.

"The wish of all the Libyan people is that Gaddafi stays alive and is then arrested and tried for all his crimes against humanity," he told reporters.

Mansour Saif al Nasr, the council's European Union spokesman, said the rebels wanted the coalition to continue their bombardment of Gaddafi's tanks and heavy artillery to ease their way back westwards.

Once Libyan territory is "liberated," the council would give way to a constituent assembly that would draft a constitution and establish a democratic and secular state, the 60-year-old former diplomat turned businessman said.

Al Nasr, who has been in exile since Gaddafi's 1969 revolution, said elections would be "free and transparent."

Foreign oil companies have billions of dollars worth of assets at stake in Libya and Zeidan promised those contracts would be honored if power changed hands.

"We will respect the agreements that were signed with other countries, but certainly in the future, we will consider the countries that helped us," he said.

http://ntclibya.org/english/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42230719/ns/world_news-europe

Not quite as messy as it could be, it's not like they have nothing sorted out should they remove Gaddafi from power.

 

[arknor]

so it goes from taking out targets threatening civilians to taking out the whole gaddafi army as the rebels advance and thats from a us admirals mouth...

still hoping china steps up tbh, if i were the ruler of china i would send in ground forces to maintain a ceasefire and keep the peace to protect the civilians.

warn any rebels that attack chinese units they will be anihilated and watch as america is powerless with its allies to do anything.

which would be a real treaty to protect civilians... not this fake crap that encourages a war

 

[CaptainRAVE]

so it goes from taking out targets threatening civilians to taking out the whole gaddafi army as the rebels advance and thats from a us admirals mouth...

still hoping china steps up tbh, if i were the ruler of china i would send in ground forces to maintain a ceasefire and keep the peace to protect the civilians.

warn any rebels that attack chinese units they will be anihilated and watch as america is powerless with its allies to do anything.

which would be a real treaty to protect civilians... not this fake crap that encourages a war

Why would China get involved? Ground troops aren't allowed. China have more sense than to cause those sorts of problems. I agree that this UN resolution is getting bent to all kinds of proportions, but they will still be better off with Gaddafi gone.

 

[arknor]

because china isnt a free country and its in their intrest to make sure its not the only one.

uprisings that have UN support are giving a bad signal out to all of the other countries who will also expect help in the same way as libya yet nothing will be done and thousands upon thousands will still be getting killed and ignored just like they are now.

many countries dont see the UN resolution beeing carried out how it should be, its a bunch of countries manipulating and twisting a very vague resolution for there own end and nothing to do with civilian life.

if it was about civilian life as i said they wouldnt be encouraging the rebels to fight for cities while bominb gaddafis army even when they are in the streets.

obviously china arent going to send in its army as peacekeepers its just wishful thinking on my part but one day they will stop sleeping and be the dominant military force and they will want a much larger say in world affairs, they might aswell start now.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

There are plenty of other countries like China, and regardless, most people there are pretty happy with the status quo.

This certainly has tarnished the UN's reputation though. The UN is a waste of space anyway and most people/countries know it.

 

[Curio]

What is going on? Obama has just been saying (very categorically) that there will be no forces on the ground in Libya. But now ABC news is reporting 2,000 Marines on the ground in one city

Anybody know what is happening? Does Obama know what's happening?

 

[mmj_uk]

Is there actually any real evidence that Gaddafi was planning to exterminate 100 of thousands of inocent civillians?

Nope, just 'intel' from the same people at the top who said Saddam could launch WMD's at the whole of Europe with only 45mins notice.

I'm not saying Gaddafi is a saint but my problem is we never had intention of a no fly zone it was blatently all about getting UN support for yet another illegal invasion, have the public not learned from the lies leading up to Iraq?

 

[Biohazard]

What is going on? Obama has just been saying (very categorically) that there will be no forces on the ground in Libya. But now ABC news is reporting 2,000 Marines on the ground in one city

Anybody know what is happening? Does Obama know what's happening?

It's 'make it up as you go along' time it would seem.