Your experience?
You are 22.
In my rather more extensive experience, I would have to disagree. "getting by" is one thing, but those people rarely get promotions from within and that will show.
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Degree vs Experience
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Your experience?
You are 22.
In my rather more extensive experience, I would have to disagree. "getting by" is one thing, but those people rarely get promotions from within and that will show.
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Experience can also be in the form of "dead mans shoes" - I've met a few people who I can see no logical reason why they've achieved the position they have except that they've been in the workplace for long enough to survive people moving on/getting fired/retiring etc. It's not a big proportion overall and it's always possible that they've slowly had the ability and interest in their job ground out of them to render them merely a placeholder but such people do exist and as such I couldn't simply look at someones experience and take it as a measure of their competence*.
However for the original question - if you have no other metrics to go on then I would probably prioritise experience over a degree but a degree is important in many jobs in that it will allow you that initial application.
*There is of course the theory that if you keep showing competence then you'll be promoted to a level where you are incompetent and at that point you will be left there.
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Which is why it is never the only measure. Like all things it is an indication.
The same way, a degree doesn't prove competence either.
Your experience?
You are 22.
In my rather more extensive experience, I would have to disagree. "getting by" is one thing, but those people rarely get promotions from within and that will show.
I worked as software guy for 2 years so far, part time for some. Yes we have terrible developers on the team, does the manager know? Yes Will he fire them? No Are they still gaining experience? Yes Are they improving? No Will future employers know? No
They came on as grads, I got the job for small iphone projects before i graduated.
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During my applications for Grad schemes I found that the degree played a part in piquing the employers interest to get to the next stage, but my experience (only a one year placement) provided the answers to all but one of the questions I was asked, the degree wasn't even mentioned. I think it was this experience that got me the offer not my degree.
If I was the employer I wouldn't place too high a value on a degree or experience alone, Id look for someone who can prove they are capable, a degree or experience considered on their own does not do this imo.
If I was the employer I wouldn't place too high a value on a degree or experience alone, Id look for someone who can prove they are capable, a degree or experience considered on their own does not do this imo.
Not really very much experience then.
While there are people like you describe, they rarely progress very high. Proven experience includes proven results in whatever industry they are in, simply working somewhere for 10 years isn't going to impress anyone, yet 10 years of proven and attested results is different.
Interestingly my wife disagrees with you as well, and she would be your CFO if you were a developer for the company she works for.
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How the hell do you prove that?
Sales jobs maybe. Developers jobs, no. Teachers, No.
Trying to measure someones success by the amount of source code they committed doesn't work. Code reviews work to some degree, but they can appeal and say the judge was biased
Interestingly my wife disagrees with you as well?
Disagrees about with what? My brothers a cima qualified CFO as well, doesn't mean anything.
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Demonstrable ability under interview.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about some of the guys that have obviously passed you by tbh.
So extraverts have an advantage?
I could say you have a chip on shoulder, saying your trying to justify not having a degree. I'm not saying a degree is required, what i'm saying is people can simply straddle through jobs, get 4 years experience then get job as senior based longevity as apposed to ability.
This is why I quite like the ideas bankers have, or most sales jobs have. Where they reward on proven ability, this is simply not possible on most jobs.
The only good way is probably a probation period with a manger with the balls the fire someone at the end of probation.
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Money making products and projects delivered on the back of your code? business objectives achieved? Your code delivered within a project framework such as AGILE, Prince etc within cost and tolerances to time. There is always a measure.
Teachers ofsted and A-C grades, Developers as above.
Teachers ofsted and A-C grades, Developers as above.
There has to be a way of testing the quality of someone's work, regardless of their job, otherwise pay rises and promotions don't make any sense.
If you're not progressing, then what are you doing?
She disagrees that experience cannot be demonstrated adequately enough to indicate worth through the recruitment and probationary process.
She would know, considering her position in a HR, Payroll, Accountancy, IT solutions provider.
Bet most of the people on here saying degrees are important are currently students! 
Experience wins EVERY time (in those industries). As others have said, degrees are just there to help get your foot in the door, after that they are completely disregarded, and you'll probably find most of the stuff you learned wasn't even useful to your job. Throughout your career it will always be about what experience you have and who you worked for.
Experience wins EVERY time (in those industries). As others have said, degrees are just there to help get your foot in the door, after that they are completely disregarded, and you'll probably find most of the stuff you learned wasn't even useful to your job. Throughout your career it will always be about what experience you have and who you worked for.
Demonstrative ability has the advantage, I would suggest working on yours instead of just getting by....
Probation period is good, interview not so good. If someone comes in quite nervous they are not going to perform well. They also have to have balls to fire the guy as well. Most mangers won't.
I'm a very capitalistic guy. Fire crap people, keep good people.
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You could say that, however I see the usefulness of a degree, just not that it trumps experience at my level.
In fact degrees at my level are meaningless in the main, everything is dependent of results, demonstrable results.
It is unlikely that someone with zero ability and 4 years experience would still be employed however, regardless of your prejudice.
At 20-25 a degree makes you stand out a little but a person who has been in the industry for six years will be of more use to an employer and be more knowledgeable.
At 30-65 this is where your experience will count far more than what you did at university and determine your success, salary etc.
A degree will fast track you with most professional institutions, so you gain professional qualifications easier and quicker. Aptitude, good experience and hard work will fast track you with most employers.
Second degrees should be taken later in life and reflect your chosen career.
I never took a degree level qualification, I am a senior design engineer for a Civil Engineering company with professional qualification.
At 30-65 this is where your experience will count far more than what you did at university and determine your success, salary etc.
A degree will fast track you with most professional institutions, so you gain professional qualifications easier and quicker. Aptitude, good experience and hard work will fast track you with most employers.
Second degrees should be taken later in life and reflect your chosen career.
I never took a degree level qualification, I am a senior design engineer for a Civil Engineering company with professional qualification.
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In my experience most Managers do have the cojones otherwise they get fired by people like me.
Prejudice towards what? I know some excellent software people without any degrees.
However I know people can get by without getting fired. There are crap teachers, they don't get fired.