whats your martial art?

ShortWarning · 24 Mar 2011 at 23:07

Buchanan0204 said:
I'm not belittling your training or experience... however I think the rise of MMA/UFC has sky rocketed in the last 5 years due to all these televised fights and there are loads of clubs opening up to teach it as a pure money making business.

What a lot of people don't seem to realise is, MMA... (Mixed Martial Arts) is exactly that. A combination of techniques taken straight out of other arts. I personally look at it as being a jack of all trades, master of none.

The clubs predominantly teach Muay Thai and BJJ as they seem to have proven the most effective in the ring/cage. However these classes are geared towards you winning fights in a competition sense rather than learning about the actual martial art itself. Which I feel is a shame, but it seems to be what people want and they pay good money to go and learn this stuff.

In my opinion any decent cage fighter has came from a good solid background of training in a single martial art and being successful with it, rather than going in cold from nothing to learning so called MMA.

Rant over, I'm sure loads of people with disagree... but hey ho.

P.S. my post was in no way directed at yourself.

MMA is a funny one. Mixed Martial Arts has existed for a long time one way or another but it was coined (at least made popular) through the early UFC's.
People would come from lots of other single disciplines and see who's style was best.
After a while fighters started combining the most effective styles to form what is considered MMA nowadays which is pretty much a style in itself. You're right in that it's mostly Muay-Thai and BJJ but you can use anything you want.

I disagree that you have to have a solid background in 1 martial art to be succesful (although a lot of the top fighters come from a wrestling backgroud).

IMO the most effective Martial Arts are the styles that are pressure tested. Boxing, Muay Thai, MMA etc which is why you see them in MMA competitions.

rotters · 24 Mar 2011 at 23:15

osc89er said:
Not really a reliable measure for the TJF as they do wear hakama.

your right but not at purple belt. The original point was it looks like aikido which at the end of the day is probably right, jujitsu and aikido have some similar traits. movement,pain,balance....

dowie · 24 Mar 2011 at 23:26

That and TJF 'jitsu' is basically a mix of Judo and Aikido.

meghatronic · 24 Mar 2011 at 23:26

rotters said:
Also Trust me it is very much Jujitsu, just at those moments I was presenting to the rest of the dojo and was only a purple belt then so not perfect by any means...

I'm interested how you would make such a concrete statement, given the overlapping boundaries, and origins of Aikido and Jujitsu (excl. BJJ).

rotters · 24 Mar 2011 at 23:43

meghatronic said:
I'm interested how you would make such a concrete statement, given the overlapping boundaries, and origins of Aikido and Jujitsu (excl. BJJ).

excuse my lack of clarity...was not meant as a sweeping statement, your right there are mixed boundaries. What I should have said was "that is jujitsu Im practacing" not a move belonging to JuJitsu.

V4NT0M · 24 Mar 2011 at 23:44

I know Kung Po.

dowie · 25 Mar 2011 at 00:00

rotters said:
excuse my lack of clarity...was not meant as a sweeping statement, your right there are mixed boundaries. What I should have said was "that is jujitsu Im practacing" not a move belonging to JuJitsu.

Tis debatable whether it is JuJitsu tbh...

It is a martial art founded by a white guy and is basically a mix of Judo and Aikido. Not surprising that someone would say that looks like Aikido because in reality it is a bastardised version of...

rotters · 25 Mar 2011 at 00:11

so what cam 1st jitsu or judo? Im not agreeing with your line of reasoning tbh...tjf jitsu is westernised I agree, and sensai kemp did introduce it to us guys...but we are recognised internationally for our jitsu (whether its basterdised or not) jitsu,aikido and judo do really work on similar principles, and through the years im sure they have become more parallel to each other.

what is your reasoning that tjf isn't "propper" jitsu?

rotters

Buchanan0204 · 25 Mar 2011 at 00:22

rotters said:
rotters

I hate to sound like one of those internet fools who picks up on faults... I'm really not like that. You guessed it... But!

You will never throw anyone realistically with your front foot still forward like that, you will need to bring it back to be level with the other one, so your slightly off balance yourself going forwards. Leaving your foot out acts like a door stop and then of course prevents you from going forwards and if you can't go forwards either can the man on your back.

dowie · 25 Mar 2011 at 00:24

rotters said:
what is your reasoning that tjf isn't "propper" jitsu?

I've already given my reasoning - the martial art you practice has mostly been derived from Judo and Aikido. In this particular instance it is safe to say that Judo came first.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this per say but more highlighting that when someone says 'that looks like Aikido' to then state

Trust me it is very much Jujitsu

isn't really the full story - it also perhpas 'looks like Aikido' because you're practicing a martial art that has been based partially on Aikido.

Buchanan0204 · 25 Mar 2011 at 00:24

rotters said:
so what cam 1st jitsu or judo? Im not agreeing with your line of reasoning tbh...tjf jitsu is westernised I agree, and sensai kemp did introduce it to us guys...but we are recognised internationally for our jitsu (whether its basterdised or not) jitsu,aikido and judo do really work on similar principles, and through the years im sure they have become more parallel to each other.

what is your reasoning that tjf isn't "propper" jitsu?

rotters

jiu jitsu came first. Judo is basically jiu jitsu with all the dangerous and deadly moves taken out. Jigoro Kano the founder of Judo stripped it of all the lethal techniques and created Judo... translated to the "gentle way" as ironic as it may be these days.

dpbadger · 25 Mar 2011 at 07:22

I have been going to Muay Thai classes 2 or 3 times a week for the past 18 months. I only wish I had started younger or about 10 years ago. The only experience I had before this was abit of boxing, karate and kick boxing.

rotters · 25 Mar 2011 at 08:12

Buchanan0204 said:
jiu jitsu came first. Judo is basically jiu jitsu with all the dangerous and deadly moves taken out. Jigoro Kano the founder of Judo stripped it of all the lethal techniques and created Judo... translated to the "gentle way" as ironic as it may be these days.

dowie said:
I've already given my reasoning - the martial art you practice has mostly been derived from Judo and Aikido. In this particular instance it is safe to say that Judo came first.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this per say but more highlighting that when someone says 'that looks like Aikido' to then state isn't really the full story - it also perhpas 'looks like Aikido' because you're practicing a martial art that has been based partially on Aikido.

Cheers Buchanan I knew the history was wondering what Dowie had to say for himself. Im liking his description of tjf jitsu, and its judo/aikido history....our style of jitsu we are based on pre dates both the sport of judo and aikido. Stop picking an argument for arguments sake. But I agree all Jujitsu styles practice aikido and judo in some kind of way as they are basically the same martial art from differing view points.

Ive seen several aikido "presentations", but never seen them defend against koshes, bokkens, chains, broken bottles, I have seen the knife defences which are very swish.

it seems to me any how:

Jujitsu= full balls out version with all weapons
Aikido= soft version using defence and offence
Judo= medals/sport mentality, also could be argued its basically human weight lifting.

Trust me ill take what I can from any of it if it makes my jitsu better.

khrall · 25 Mar 2011 at 08:14

Buchanan0204 said:
I hate to sound like one of those internet fools who picks up on faults... I'm really not like that. You guessed it... But!

You will never throw anyone realistically with your front foot still forward like that, you will need to bring it back to be level with the other one, so your slightly off balance yourself going forwards. Leaving your foot out acts like a door stop and then of course prevents you from going forwards and if you can't go forwards either can the man on your back.

Looking at the photo, I'd say he started facing 90 degrees to the right and whilst throwing with what looks like an O-goshi did a 90 degree turn to the left to rotate his hips during the throw.

I used to do Judo for several years, fought for my County at junior level, making it to 14th Mon (Blue 3 Tabs) before studies got in the way and had to quit.

Tried starting back a couple of time, but never found the time for it with Work, which is a shame.

panthro · 25 Mar 2011 at 08:40

rotters said:
Judo= medals/sport mentality, also could be argued its basically human weight lifting.

Trust me ill take what I can from any of it if it makes my jitsu better.

Just want to clarify; Judo is a martial art and was developed as a martial art. Its a sport secondly to being a martial art. BJJ was derived from Judo, not JJ as most people seem to believe.

The IPB · 25 Mar 2011 at 08:45

An Kosen Judo was basically BJJ already, Judo but with more emphasis on the ground aspect.

Helio Gracie just stole the idea and marketed it as something he invented.

ShortWarning · 25 Mar 2011 at 11:01

Dkore-DeX said:
An Kosen Judo was basically BJJ already, Judo but with more emphasis on the ground aspect.

Helio Gracie just stole the idea and marketed it as something he invented.

Not quite true, but kinda.

Helio was a small guy and a lot of the moves in Judo required a lot of strength. He adapted it to work for the smaller guys (agains't bigger opponents) relying more on body mechanics and off balancing.

It's now a very different martial art.

The IPB · 25 Mar 2011 at 11:15

I disagree, all he did was basically take 95% of the throws out. I'm 66kg and I can still take down heavyweights depending on the throw I choose to use.

This is coming from someone who trains in both btw. If you look back in the old Judo books, all the stuff they are doing in BJJ now they were doing back then. Obviously some things are new but the vast majority is really old stuff.

Buchanan0204 · 25 Mar 2011 at 11:31

Ardmanz said:
Not quite true, but kinda.

Helio was a small guy and a lot of the moves in Judo required a lot of strength. He adapted it to work for the smaller guys (agains't bigger opponents) relying more on body mechanics and off balancing.

It's now a very different martial art.

Like any decent martial art worth it's salt. It certainly doesn't require a huge amount of strength. Kanos moto was, "maximum efficiency, minimum effort."

It's all down to proper technique and timing... just like hitting a golf ball 300 yards or hitting a serve at 150mph in tennis. All timing and ability, not strength.

Buchanan0204 · 25 Mar 2011 at 11:33

khrall said:
Looking at the photo, I'd say he started facing 90 degrees to the right and whilst throwing with what looks like an O-goshi did a 90 degree turn to the left to rotate his hips during the throw.

I used to do Judo for several years, fought for my County at junior level, making it to 14th Mon (Blue 3 Tabs) before studies got in the way and had to quit.

Tried starting back a couple of time, but never found the time for it with Work, which is a shame.

I think it is an O-goshi. Therefor reinforcing my point his feet should be parallel.