Africa's AIDS epidemic
- Thread starter kwerk
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Man of Honour
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No doubt the OP is getting HIV mixed up with AIDS but I thought he had a bit of a point.
If drug misusers can infect each other through a needle then it's possible a mosquito could pass HIV on (but apparently it can't).
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Soldato
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Agreed
Since when is abstinence such a big problem? It's not hard to do
What, so they stop other charities from distributing them?
The Catholics have been running hospitals in Africa for years, without basic health care you wouldn't have a population to worry about. How about spending the billions we waste on antivirals on helping the greater need.
I think the drug companies have conned you too
You posted a group of sourceless contrived soundbites that do not show the whole picture, then expect such 'proof' to justify ending religion. A weak position at best I think.
Yeah, sure. Blame Catholics.
1). The ABC policy in Uganda (Abstain; Be faithful; Use condoms) has grossly lowered numbers of those infected with HIV/AIDS - DESPITE the general lack of condom avaliability.
2). If any of you followed the news you would realise that the Pope et all now approve the use of condoms for the prevention of disease/virus spreading - which, correct me if I'm wrong includes HIV.
Massive +1 to bitslice too.
1). The ABC policy in Uganda (Abstain; Be faithful; Use condoms) has grossly lowered numbers of those infected with HIV/AIDS - DESPITE the general lack of condom avaliability.
2). If any of you followed the news you would realise that the Pope et all now approve the use of condoms for the prevention of disease/virus spreading - which, correct me if I'm wrong includes HIV.
Massive +1 to bitslice too.
AIDS isn't being caused by mosquitos, it's natures way of culling the population where people overpopulate or bahave in sexualy degenerate ways.
Caporegime
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Woo, well done, genius, several hundred years of don't do it, but dear god if you do don't use a condom or you'll go to hell, followed by a few years of, use condoms.
As we all know when you drill an idea into people for generation after generation, changing your message instantly changes everyones mind.
Firstly, I didn't say it was ALL the catholics church fault, if I did please point it out. Secondly, for a hell of a long time what hurfdurf said
WAS true, as I said, its the WAY they acted aswell, they actively went after other groups who tried to give out condoms and force them to stop, which is beyond shameful. As for condoms not being widely available, thats the point, WHY aren't the cheapest ruddy mass produced things, free to half the world in some quantity(you can go into a clinic and get free condoms in half the world) not widely available in Africa?
The reason they aren't/weren't widely used was African people told its a sin to use them, those who ran stores wouldn't stock them, yes, they DID stop other charities offering them to people, yes they massively harmed the public opinion of condom use which had a detrimental effect on the increasing frequency of their use.
Its been proven time and time again in the WESTERN WORLD, USA, even the UK that abstinance teaching fails, massively. Not quite as daft as telling people not to breathe, or eat, but, there are simply things we have evolved to do, having sex is one of them, abstinance teaching/preaching is simply another daft thing the catholic church has been doing for donkeys years.
100, 150 years, longer of one message, followed by a few years of a new message, sorry that doesn't cancel out all the bad things they did. Nor does the bad cancel out the good things they've done, unfortunately, all the good things don't negate the reason they went their in the first place.
It's not a change of message, it's a clarification of the issue.
Stopping condom use was to fit in with not interfering with procreation, but if by not using meant you were going to die, then condom use was the lesser of two evils.
Abstinence is still the message.
Frankly if someone tells you that sex may kill you but you are too ignorant to listen, then the finer points of debate are a bit pointless.
Stopping condom use was to fit in with not interfering with procreation, but if by not using meant you were going to die, then condom use was the lesser of two evils.
Abstinence is still the message.
Frankly if someone tells you that sex may kill you but you are too ignorant to listen, then the finer points of debate are a bit pointless.
yes yet for years they published "research" that showed hiv could go though condoms and they didn't work...
Strange that huge parts of england aren't being culled - fit the profile you gave completely.
Just what this thread needs, another ''Wise Guy'' Please stick to extra terrestrial matters where your true intelligence and expertise shines.
Since when is abstinence such a big problem? It's not hard to do
Look at all the peer reviewed studies that show how terrible abstinence only education has been. It is not hard to do but its pretty hard to get people to want to do it, leaving those who chose not wanting to abstain with little too zero information on sex.
What, so they stop other charities from distributing them?
The Catholics have been running hospitals in Africa for years, without basic health care you wouldn't have a population to worry about. How about spending the billions we waste on antivirals on helping the greater need.
I think the drug companies have conned you too
You posted a group of sourceless contrived soundbites that do not show the whole picture, then expect such 'proof' to justify ending religion. A weak position at best I think.
Catholic run hospitals have been frequently known to provide support to clinics who refuse to provide condoms or abortions.
Shock horror that action has improved things over inaction, sadly the action was grossly flawed and has not helped any where near as many people as it could have done had the people with the money not been following a doctrine set down by child molester protecting story teller who encourages people to worship a made up thing.
And oh look, Catholics changing their mind after years of being behind the curve and causing untold damage while they catch up.
Exactly, its unforgivable, the fact they still have a following shows how brain washed and cult like they are. Any non religious organisation that behaved in such a way would be strung up, but hide behind a made up god and your untouchable no matter how heinous your actions are.
Can you imagine if Microsoft protected child molesters from prosecution and hushed up victims families and went into Afrika with all sorts of false information, lies and stories about an all glorious leader who X thousand years ago performed things that were scientifically impossible and yet had no evidence for it, and then went on to say they could have funding as long as they believed in said leader.
They would be sent down for life.
Soldato
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Could you clarify something for me, are you anti-Catholic regarding the religiou structure and those who 'run' the church, or anti-Catholic against any member of the church, and anyone who reports themselves to be Catholic?
Cookeh just pointed out that it did work but your response was basically to blow raspberries and go OT
All this is just trying to force a European way of doing things ( unrestricted sex and free abortions) into a culture where that kind of behaviour is killing people.
We have the ability to have risky sex but we don't want to face the fact that what we are doing is wrong, so where we see other cultures doing the same we insist that they follow our way of life too, that way nobody has to face the consequences of their own behaviour and we can carry on pretending that our way of life has no downsides to it.
Fact is, risky sex in Africa is going to continue to kill people no matter how many condoms they have, because condoms will fail and people will get infected.
Our culture is unsustainable in Africa, so let's think about what is going to keep them alive long term and the only thing that will achieve that aim in their culture is abstinence.
Trying to replicate our society over there is only wasting billions on drugs, to keep people alive who were too ignorant to not sleep with prostitutes. It's a massive waste of resources which could go on other people who are not so self indulgent. It's not as if anyone there has a long lifespan anyway, yet we think keeping people alive on antivirals is helping?
It's time to stop lining the pockets of drug companies and start promoting a change in culture that will stop the deaths. Anything else is self indulgent do-gooding.
Good question. I am anti religion, pro logic/science.
I have a deep dislike of the people who are running the Catholic Church, they are evil incarnate and the fact people still follow them blows my mind.
People who identify themselves as Catholic confuse the hell out of me, if you are a proper Catholic then following the bible and the Pope and what not, then you are as bad as the leaders in my opinion, especially when you consider some of the horrendous and barbaric stuff that is both in the bible and has been purported by the Catholic leadership in the past.
If you identify yourself as Catholic but ignore half of the teachings and pick and choose, then why is one Catholic, again, just as bad. Understanding that there are things deeply wrong with what you are being told, ignoring bits of it, but still claiming that you are a Catholic and that what they are saying is true but....... then one is still supporting such an awful institution.
It's not just Catholics I despise, its all religions, but coming from a Catholic family they are the main lot I have had to argue with and no one is yet to prove to me with logic and science that Catholics are correct nor have they in any way demonstrated that Catholicism is a force for good.
High light of the debate that sums it up for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQIME6yyKq4
Chart I now use with extended family members who are still religious on whether or not ill discuss it with them.
Nope
Nope
Nope
Lol
Nope
Abstinence hasn't worked any where, its failed in side by side comparisons every single time, it is doing massive amounts of harm in Africa when compared to what could be being done. Saying abstinence has done good is like saying Hitler did some good, it might be true, but its grossly outweighed by the damage done when compared with the alternatives.
You seem to have come to this bizarre conclusion that Abstinence works. You also seem to have come to a conclusion that because of the problems in Africa they are not capable of doing things correctly, I wonder, what are your sources for this info? Did you study it at University? Read various articles? Come to the conclusions yourself after visiting?