"British Tea Party" organises pro-cuts rally - May 14th

Indeed, your suggestion that a debt is always a bad idea regardless of the return on any investment made with the money proves it.

If you ever had a mortgage for either of your houses, I shout hippocrit!

Well it would be better that you could actually spell hypocrite before actually accusing them of being one!

As to your point - NO I have never had a mortgage...I worked hard, saved and bought my houses cash!

As to investment and debt!
It's fine to borrow money if the investment allows a business to expand and make more profit and create more jobs and distribute more wealth BUT, borrowing to cover huge losses and already crippling debt does not help in the long term and the only solution is to cut back on spending and re-structure the business to make it once more profitable, if it's possible!
The same goes for Great Britain PLC...if the huge debt and borrowing is simply to fund public sector jobs, which are generally non-wealth creating, then it can only lead to increasing debt and take longer to recover.

Before this country can move forward, the growing reliance on debt needs to be under control. It's that simple.
 
I wouldn't attend, because I don't buy the idea that vocal minorities should set policies when we have already expressed our views in elections (whether electoral reform, either of the voting system or of information requirements is needed is a different matter, or whether we need greater constitutional protection from the vagaries of popular opinion).

None of the Westminster parties were honest with this subject, nor did the manifestos contain the whole picture. In fact, they have went back on their word on several issues citing circumstances.

Surely people can also cite circumstances and remonstrate before waiting 4 or 5 years.

It will be interesting to see how much violence and destruction this causes compared to the previous anti-cuts protests of various guises if the turnout is high though...

I suspect you will still get the violent minority turning out somewhere.
 
I still remember the likes of Dolph and Hatter the Mad screaming from the rafters before the election that front line services would not be affected by the cuts.

They actually, really believed it ..

They didn't. The problem was that you decided to argue a point nobody actually made. Probably because your debating skills are so poor that debating the points actually raised is too difficult for you.
 
Taxing the rich is fine, so long as you don't tax them so heavily that they leave, or use their tax revenues so inefficiently that they leave.

When wealth people are paying less tax than poor people as a proportion of their income in this country, I don't think we're taxing them too heavily at all. "Using tax revenues inefficiently" is an interesting one, most studies agree that the NHS is one of the most efficient model of healthcare in the world - yet perceived wisdom (mainly thanks to the right-wing press imo) is that it's one of the worst.
 
Student protesters rarely continue being anarchists or even anti-establishment when they grow up and enter the 'real' world.

I don't think this is anti establishment angst - the protests.

It may fuel it I have no doubt, but I do not think that is the catalyst at all.

I wouldn't be so quick to chastise student mentality or understanding myself, although there is a resonance in what you say with certain demographics.

Not them all though.
 
LOL @ Toby Young being a supporter of the tea party.

Toby-Young-pro-cuts-rally-007.jpg


I remember seeing this **** on TV a few years ago talking about he believed Gordon Brown when he said he would end Boom and Bust economics.
 
When wealth people are paying less tax than poor people as a proportion of their income in this country, I don't think we're taxing them too heavily at all. "Using tax revenues inefficiently" is an interesting one, most studies agree that the NHS is one of the most efficient model of healthcare in the world - yet perceived wisdom (mainly thanks to the right-wing press imo) is that it's one of the worst.

Why should those who work hard and earn more than others pay more for their services?
They already pay more into the system through income taxes. Should they also pay more fro their food and clothing too?

Also where on earth do you think the money comes from to invest in businesses which provide jobs?
 
LOL @ Toby Young being a supporter of the tea party.

I remember seeing this **** on TV a few years ago talking about he believed Gordon Brown when he said he would end Boom and Bust economics.

You can stop the effects of Boom and Bust, but it is never going to happen in the UK.
 
I don't think this is anti establishment angst - the protests.

It may fuel it I have no doubt, but I do not think that is the catalyst at all.

I wouldn't be so quick to chastise student mentality or understanding myself, although there is a resonance in what you say with certain demographics.

Not them all though.

I agree insofar that these protests are not created by anti-establishment ideology, however regardless of the reason for protesting, the younger you are and the less overall responsibility you have the more likely it is that you will pick up the baton for whatever protest movement is in vogue at the time.

How many of the students who are protesting against University Fees for example will if they graduate to become politicians and policy makers remember or care about that which they protested against when they were young?

Tony Blair was an active member of CND for example, yet supported our Nuclear Deterrent 20 years later when he had the power to influence the decision to keep it or indeed remove it as he protested for all those years prior.

So my point isn't that they do not have valid reasons for protesting, but as they get older and more experienced, they become less idealistic, less likely to follow the in-crowd and more likely to have wider considerations and are less likely to be swayed by militant rhetoric.
 
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As someone already stated, debt is not always bad debt. Even large profitable companies with huge amounts of assets take on debt to improve liquidity because its invested in tangible things. Pretty much all companies that grow rapidly take on debt or sell for equity to VC's etc, once you float your company it tends to be less of issue.

Its a lot more complicated than arggggh debt.

If you take on debt at 10%, then grow the company for a 30% return it is defiantly worth it.

If you take on debt at 20%, then grow the company for a 5% return your screwed.

A lot highly educated economists still don't know which way to go, its mostly speculation. People need to make the distinction between good and bad debt.

Most personal loans except for mortgages or career development loans tend to be bad debt. Taking a loan for a car is almost always bad debt. So people tend to have skewed view of debt.
 
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I agree insofar that these protests are not created by anti-establishment ideology, however regardless of the reason for protesting, the younger you are and the less overall responsibility you have the more likely it is that you will pick up the baton for whatever protest movement is in vogue at the time.

Agreed to a certain extent, but it also depends on the individual and demographics.

There has been no violence in Scotland for example in our marches and demonstrations for this. Where as a violent minority in London seem to be casting poor light upon all students it would seem.

How many of the students who are protesting against University Fees for example will if they graduate to become politicians and policy makers remember or care about that which they protested against when they were young?

Tony Blair was a member of CND for example, yet supported our Nuclear Deterrent 20 years later when he had the power to influence the decision to keep it.

That's because he had to adopt the "political garments" of Labour/Office to stop the Conservatives from hanging him when he decided on his career in politics.

Once firmly in the establishment, he is not going to want to dismantle one premise onto which it stands. He would apparently damage the country, remove a significant proportion of its current influence and more than likely hinder his personal ambitions for office/the world.

Although I think this is quite an extreme example, as Labour totally left its socialist credentials behind it with the shedding of its Clause IV outer skin and the distance between the CND parliamentary group and the party.

Everyone especially the rising stars underwent a paradigm shift within that creed when moving towards the upper echelons of the party and government.

So my point isn't that they do not have valid reasons for protesting, but as they get older and more experienced, they become less idealistic, less likely to follow the in-crowd and more likely to have wider considerations and are less likely to be swayed by militant rhetoric.

Yes I concur but not in huge numbers as we have seen. I can remember the protests around the G8 in Edinburgh, which turned into a riot in large sections. That was down to a well reported traveling bunch of violent trouble makers, "home grown" thugs literally catching the bus to go up town and slog it out with the police with appropriate attire - I caught a bus with a few talking about it after :rolleyes: - and as you say some people getting caught in the moment.

Overall it was a minority here, but the impact was irreversible and open to exploitation. As it was. When I look at the protests near you, I can only assume the same. The disproportionate amount of reporting on the 'highlights;violence" in comparison to the peaceful aspect is a bit concerning. Can't make my mind up if it is just sensationalist reporting, or if it is motivated behind that.

As I've grown older I've probably become more idealistic; adapting to learning and outside impacts rather than changing all together.
 
Sean Connery and Jackie Stewart to name just two.

United Business media and WPP group are also 2 companies that relocated their tax headquarters but following the surprise 2pc cut announced in the budget are considering returning to the UK :)
 
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