Refusing to fill out the census

magick · 26 Apr 2011 at 09:52

Craig1981 said:
I really dont understand why people get so bent out of shape over the census form. Unless you've got something to hide, why complain about filling in a silly little form once a year.

If the census form was anonomous I would gladly fill it in but why do they need names, DOBs, and other personal details like the address of your work place?

I haven't filled it in and have no intention of filling it in. Had the census people round ab out three times once I wasn't in and the other two times I didn't answer my door to them.

Wicksta · 26 Apr 2011 at 09:56

I filled it in so that future generations will be able to track where their family were, what they were doing etc. I guess if magick was one of my ancestors I'd probably rather not know so there is no loss and I don't think you deserve a fine.

magick · 26 Apr 2011 at 09:56

freak2002 said:
2. My wife traced her family tree back to the 1700s using censuses. Imagine in 100 years his great grandson is doing the same, so he asks his mum about her grandad. Your grandad was a plonker so we know nothing about him apart from this very low res youtube video (it was all the rage back in the day) and didnt fill out the census, now the entire family is poor/dying because he got fined £1000 and could afford "the medicine".

Hmm. I never thought of that. Maybe I should fill it in after all, however i'm not to sure that there will be a world left in 100 years.

mmj_uk · 26 Apr 2011 at 09:58

Time to send around the Gestapo.

Robert · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:00

coltpython3 said:
she has beautiful legs!!!

She seemed to have nice breasts as well

Nix · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:01

magick said:
If the census form was anonomous I would gladly fill it in but why do they need names, DOBs, and other personal details like the address of your work place?

I haven't filled it in and have no intention of filling it in. Had the census people round ab out three times once I wasn't in and the other two times I didn't answer my door to them.

You're too paranoid for your own good sometimes.

It's a snapshot of our society and time, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. No one's going to suddenly use that data against you.

Try looking over some census data from 100 years ago. Names you're detached from and how they lived. It's incredibly interesting. Historians of the future will no doubt do the same to us.

"Oh look, Mr Nix, 25, graduate, living at home on poor income. Must've been an unfortunate victim of the recession. I wonder what the local economy was like?"

etc.

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill you lot.

CMOS · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:03

I_M_Weasel said:
Did he? Or was he just born here, I doubt if he had much say in his conception or birth.

Well assuming he is a UK citizen, then by law, he is obliged to fill it out, either that he can forfeight his nationality then he woudn't have to fill it out.

mmj_uk · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:04

Nix said:
The Census Act 1920 requires Parliament to pass the order for it to become law. Parliament did so in 2009. It's law, he's talking crap. There's nothing about entering into contract.

According to all the "free man on the land" stuff...

A statute law or act is in legal terms is defined as “ an act given the force of law by the consent of the governed”, note it says consent, so if you don’t consent to it and there is no contract between yourself and the other party it is not law.
So now you see why freemen (and those claiming to be freemen) will say I do not consent, and there is no contract between us, I have broken no law when you are going to arrest them or make them obey an act or statute legislation.

Fenris · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:06

mmj_uk said:
According to all the "free man on the land" stuff...

Which for the record is certifiable garbage, just so we are clear.

reefoid · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:09

magick said:
If the census form was anonomous I would gladly fill it in but why do they need names, DOBs, and other personal details like the address of your work place?

I haven't filled it in and have no intention of filling it in. Had the census people round ab out three times once I wasn't in and the other two times I didn't answer my door to them.

Names and dob's are used, amongst other things, to identify how people move about the country through there lives.

Work addresses are used to identify our work/commute patterns, which can influence public transport and regional regeneration among other things.

I really don't understand the anti-census brigade. All of the information you provide on the form is already available to the government anyway, you're just providing it in a snapshot form for easy analysis.

Memphis · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:09

magick said:
If the census form was anonomous I would gladly fill it in but why do they need names, DOBs, and other personal details like the address of your work place?

I haven't filled it in and have no intention of filling it in. Had the census people round ab out three times once I wasn't in and the other two times I didn't answer my door to them.

You're really a special person aren't you... and not in a good way.

Nix · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:10

Who has that quote regarding parliament not recognising any other authority in terms of law-making?

I agree with the freeman point in principle, however that's not really how it works is it? Society by and large isn't mature enough to have such an individual responsibility to cherry-pick what they want and don't want to abide by.

magick · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:12

About the american census but still relevant for the UK

guyfawkes5 · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:13

freak2002 said:
All I can say is twit...

1. I have not entered/signed a contract to accept the speed limit so I can go down the motorway at 100mph....yeah right.

2. My wife traced her family tree back to the 1700s using censuses. Imagine in 100 years his great grandson is doing the same, so he asks his mum about her grandad. Your grandad was a plonker so we know nothing about him apart from this very low res youtube video (it was all the rage back in the day) and didnt fill out the census, now the entire family is poor/dying because he got fined £1000 and could afford "the medicine".

Or maybe because his rare disease evaded sufficient mention in the census and the NHS failed to allocate funds to it.

Academically what he's referring to is the 'social contract', although it's more of a very general debate on the origin/justification of society rather than something someone would ever use in regards to the census or specific modern laws.

I don't know why he's quoting previous acts of parliament to 'back up' his assertions and then subsequently saying that since he didn't 'sign anything' he shouldn't be contractually oblidged to any actions he doesn't want to do. It seems that the value of parliamentary legislation to him increases and decreases proportionally with how it seems to back up his case... you can't use law to say one thing and then ignore it later in the same sentence.

And yes, he does sound like the usual pseudo-intellectual pillock who ambushes what they presume to be 'easy' targets like lowly-paid census collectors who privately could probably give less of a **** if someone random ******* is taking a stand 'against the system' in the most pointlessly stupid way possible.

Maybe if he took his 'arguments' to the universities and carried on from there I'd have some respect for him, not because he's not talking absolute **** and wouldn't be laughed out of there, but at least it's better than the low-res faecal matter he's churning onto Youtube with his tirades against people who don't care and are hog-tied in regards to telling him he is a retard.

magick · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:15

Nix said:
You're too paranoid for your own good sometimes.

It's a snapshot of our society and time, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. No one's going to suddenly use that data against you.

Does this information find it's way into the hands of marketing companies like experian though? And what happens when this data is inevitably hacked or lost?

guyfawkes5 · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:16

magick said:
And what happens when this data is inevitably hacked or lost?

It is only 'inevitable' in the minds of some.

Nix · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:24

magick said:
Does this information find it's way into the hands of marketing companies like experian though? And what happens when this data is inevitably hacked or lost?

Who says it will be?

Once collected, the data AFAIK goes here: http://www.ons.gov.uk/about/index.html

They play with it and filter it out where needed. If the government sold the data - which is generally protected by law as you cannot as an individual usually see such census data for over 100 years even under the FOI - it would undermine the whole exercise. It's in the government's interest to play this one by the book.

NathanE · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:33

What was all the "Lockheed Martin" stuff about? He just seemed to go off on a tangent about them for a few sentences?

He doesn't sound like the sharpest tool in the box though, does he?

Pronounces 8 as a H. Like wtf?

magick · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:33

Nix said:
Who says it will be?

Once collected, the data AFAIK goes here: http://www.ons.gov.uk/about/index.html

They play with it and filter it out where needed. If the government sold the data - which is generally protected by law as you cannot as an individual usually see such census data for over 100 years even under the FOI - it would undermine the whole exercise. It's in the government's interest to play this one by the book.

OK thanks. But I never trust the government to play it by the book especialy when it comes to private data and the governments love of snooping in to peoples lives.

Tefal · 26 Apr 2011 at 10:37

PMKeates said:
I wonder how many forevers it would take for them figure it out?

about 100 years, when your descendants read it and realise their great granddad was a dick.