"British Tea Party" organises pro-cuts rally - May 14th

[dante6491]

I am attending. Along with most of my fellow conservative future members at Brunel. Will probably pop down to the OCUK meet afterwards.

 

[Snax]

Economists here have not mentioned risk.

What I the risk that the loan @ 10% will not achieve the 30% return.

Additionally the return is still only a fraction of the whole. When you are dealing with a mountain of debt and a competitive market it might be foolhardy to try and invest your way out. This is what the banks tried to do with their investments.

Debt cutters take the prudent view that nothing is as effective at reducing debt as paying it off ASAP. People opposed to the cuts ironically want to invest their way out like the banks.

Such a quirky world we love in!

 

[Snax]

Sean Connery and Jackie Stewart to name just two.

Lewis Hamilton and Philip green are two particularly high profile cases of tax residency being altered to avoid tax. In Philip green's case it wa through the use of his wife though.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Didn't the Beatles and the Stones leave the UK in the 60's for tax purposes because super tax was 95%?

 

[Vonhelmet]

Can you show me an example where the rich have left a country due to taxation?

Or business?

Straight off the top of my head without even thinking about it - a group called Shire who do pharmaceuticals moved from the UK to Ireland.

And I used to work closely with a private client department, and loads of rich people would move overseas to avoid tax.

 

[Biohazard]

Sean Connery and Jackie Stewart to name just two.

Sean Connery does it because he does not want to pay Westminster and the UK the tax, he has said if Scotland becomes independent he will move his residency apparently.

I think the same could be said of Jackie Stewart given his support for Independence but it is probably just more down to the figures, but he is a far more politically reserved man. Either which way, these people still have houses in the UK and are non domicile status afaik.

I'm wasn't meaning single examples really my fault in the wording there, I'm talking this threat of a country becoming a near economic waste ground due to the swathes of the capitalist class leaving which the segments of press near continually stress.

I haven't seen it.

Lewis Hamilton and Philip green are two particularly high profile cases of tax residency being altered to avoid tax. In Philip green's case it wa through the use of his wife though.

That isn't even leaving the country properly though, these are all valid avoidance schemes as we are reminded.

If you can benefit and do this you will. As do the Green's. A rise in tax is not going to hit them substantially, a clamp down on avoidance schemes would significantly.

I don't see how high tax pushes the rich away, we've seen an increase in their wealth during a period of high taxation. They just squirrel it away increasingly better.

United Business media and WPP group are also 2 companies that relocated their tax headquarters but following the surprise 2pc cut announced in the budget are considering returning to the UK

UBML pegged it to Rep. Ireland through Jersey.

Companies would do this if it was 8% or 80% if they were capable and it was permitted as it is now.

Straight off the top of my head without even thinking about it - a group called Shire who do pharmaceuticals moved from the UK to Ireland.

And I used to work closely with a private client department, and loads of rich people would move overseas to avoid tax.

Indeed, my uncle is nom domicile has been for decades. See above, I should have worded it better.

Loads of rich people do, and if they have the option I don't see why they don't.

Why were your clients sitting here paying 'superflous' tax when it could have been offset even after the cost of foreign residence?

They crazy?

 

[lttlejoe]

I'm wasn't meaning single examples really my fault in the wording there, I'm talking this threat of a country becoming a near economic waste ground due to the swathes of the capitalist class leaving which the segments of press near continually stress.

I haven't seen it.

You've also got to think that a large percentage of investment income comes from abroad - large international manufacturing companies, banks, private wealthy investors etc.

Would you as a potential British or foreign investor, invest in the UK if the government applied prohibitive taxes on profits or the industries in which they potentially invested were dominated by left wing unions? These people don't invest in the UK for altruistic reasons...the motivator is profit. However, the trade-off is more jobs and employment plus valuable tax revenue for the government. Without investment, there won't be jobs created.

Unlike maybe 50 years ago, the UK is now competing on a truly world market against both established and fast emerging economies which were never there before - we now have to make the UK attractive for investment with attractive taxation of businesses instead of taxing them to the hilt, otherwise many of these companies will simply move to countries that offer better tax breaks which in turn reduces UK investment which if allowed to continue, we'll see unprecedented unemployment which would be disastrous for the country and the unemployed.

 

[Snax]

Sean Connery does it because he does not want to pay Westminster and the UK the tax, he has said if Scotland becomes independent he will move his residency apparently.

I think the same could be said of Jackie Stewart given his support for Independence but it is probably just more down to the figures, but he is a far more politically reserved man. Either which way, these people still have houses in the UK and are non domicile status afaik.

I'm wasn't meaning single examples really my fault in the wording there, I'm talking this threat of a country becoming a near economic waste ground due to the swathes of the capitalist class leaving which the segments of press near continually stress.

I haven't seen it.



That isn't even leaving the country properly though, these are all valid avoidance schemes as we are reminded.

If you can benefit and do this you will. As do the Green's. A rise in tax is not going to hit them substantially, a clamp down on avoidance schemes would significantly.

I don't see how high tax pushes the rich away, we've seen an increase in their wealth during a period of high taxation. They just squirrel it away increasingly better.



UBML pegged it to Rep. Ireland through Jersey.

Companies would do this if it was 8% or 80% if they were capable and it was permitted as it is now.




Indeed, my uncle is nom domicile has been for decades. See above, I should have worded it better.

Loads of rich people do, and if they have the option I don't see why they don't.

Why were your clients sitting here paying 'superflous' tax when it could have been offset even after the cost of foreign residence?

They crazy?

They are not tax avoidance schemes for a start. Affluent corporates and individuals have international mobility. They move abroad to avoid tax and visit the uk rather than live here. A tax avoidance scheme relies on a series of transactions that result in a tax loss but not an economic one.

Hmrc have very little power to tax income arising abroad. Especially when the individual in question is non resident. There will always be a fine line between increases to tax offsetting the benefit of not having to move and the prestige of being onshore in a "good" jurisdiction.

Hsbc are thinking about moving as are many of the large financials. If this happens the uk will lose its right to tax billions of pounds of income.

Shire wpp have both gone offshore. Google stays offshore. Hmrc has to balance the art of collecting tax with making the uk an attractive locale.

 

[Tunney]

Shire wpp have both gone offshore. Google stays offshore. Hmrc has to balance the art of collecting tax with making the uk an attractive locale.

The problem is that the UK can't adopt a suicidal corporate tax rate like Ireland (where Google funnels all of its UK money through). We'll never be competitive compared to the Cayman Islands or any other tax haven and nor should we be.

Joining the race to the bottom on tax would bankrupt this country.

 

[VFM Addict]

.........
Student protesters rarely continue being anarchists or even anti-establishment when they grow up and enter the 'real' world.

Now that, Casteil, and Why? is a the basis for whole debate in itself.

 

[VFM Addict]

Now that, Casteil, and Why? is the basis for whole debate in itself.

 

[Snax]

The problem is that the UK can't adopt a suicidal corporate tax rate like Ireland (where Google funnels all of its UK money through). We'll never be competitive compared to the Cayman Islands or any other tax haven and nor should we be.

Joining the race to the bottom on tax would bankrupt this country.

Agreed.

 

[scorza]

They've started arriving: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/13/pro-cuts-rally-against-debt

Hundreds of pro-cuts activists are expected to descend on Westminster on Saturday to "rally against debt", in the first sign of a radical Tea Party-style mass movement to challenge the anti-cuts lobby.

The protest will be attended by an alliance of rightwing and libertarian activists including members of the TaxPayers' Alliance (TPA), the anti-Europe UK Independence party and the Freedom Association, a libertarian pressure group set up by Norris McWhirter, better known for co-founding the Guinness Book of Records.

In other news, more wasteful government spending is cut: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13381294

 

[Naffa]

"So far, more than 1,300 people have signed up to a rally that aims to be a well- mannered alternative to the unrealistic trade union march and the vandalism of the UK Uncut protest back in March ... No particular party, organisation or person is leading this protest, and there is no common position beyond our basic concern about the huge public sector deficit."

Well, who wouldn't want to go to a march whose only aim is to show concern about public sector deficit in a well mannered way? I don't agree with the government's macroeconomic policy at the moment, but that march isn't something I would bark at.

 

[Theophany]

The problem is that the UK can't adopt a suicidal corporate tax rate like Ireland (where Google funnels all of its UK money through). We'll never be competitive compared to the Cayman Islands or any other tax haven and nor should we be.

Joining the race to the bottom on tax would bankrupt this country.

Tax havens like the Cayman Islands are dying out, so that point is moot. My uncle is a barrister at the islands' largest law firm and despite banking being the largest source of their economic income, the days of flagrant tax avoidance by overseas individuals and entities are coming to an end. Everywhere else in the world there is a collective push to coerce other tax havens into complying with their outlawing - and it's working.

But why would corporate tax rates like Ireland's be suicidal, I do not understand this logic. I'm genuinely curious as to why you think this, I'm not saying you're wrong.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Looks like i have something to do this weekend. Ill be wearing my ocuk tshirt!

 

[Biohazard]

Who honestly would want to attach themself to such right wing lunacy?

The tea party are scary ass morons to be frank. Both here and over the atlantic.

 

[anything I don't mind]

oh shut up, you sound like my gran.

 

[Biohazard]

They are not tax avoidance schemes for a start. Affluent corporates and individuals have international mobility. They move abroad to avoid tax and visit the uk rather than live here. A tax avoidance scheme relies on a series of transactions that result in a tax loss but not an economic one.

Sorry typo I meant evasion.

Hmrc have very little power to tax income arising abroad. Especially when the individual in question is non resident.

It would depend on which country as the department looks set to continue to sign reciprocal transparancy agreements with countries and economic hidey-holes.

There will always be a fine line between increases to tax offsetting the benefit of not having to move and the prestige of being onshore in a "good" jurisdiction.

Hsbc are thinking about moving as are many of the large financials. If this happens the uk will lose its right to tax billions of pounds of income.

I don't think they are at all. This has been wheeled out decade after decade as an attack on the tax regime - it's never happened.

I asked for evidence of it happening en masse in the world, no one can bring it either.

Shire wpp have both gone offshore. Google stays offshore. Hmrc has to balance the art of collecting tax with making the uk an attractive locale.

That is not HMRC's job directly, the last part.

HMRC's job is is to "protect" and collect the revenue.

It should do so harder and more ruthlessly, and stop cutting deals with business without consulting legal advice..

 

[Biohazard]

oh shut up, you sound like my gran.

Where did your stupid genes come from then?