Why are the Liberal Democrats seen as a Labour alternative...

Energize · 15 May 2011 at 23:29

Labour are totalitarian, Liberal democrats are just that, Liberal.

/thread

Naffa · 16 May 2011 at 00:23

Energize said:
Labour are totalitarian

Please tell me you're joking, and that you don't actually believe that.

Biohazard · 16 May 2011 at 00:29

Tony Blair is most definately going to be in the blue square.

Hatter The Mad · 16 May 2011 at 00:35

To those who say the Lib Dems are 'left wing', you should read the Orange Book. The Lib Dems are currently lead by free market libertarians, essentially.

They are a frankenstein party, though. They have a big base who would consider themselves more left wing than (not New) Labour.

Fact is, all three of the main parties are centre-right, with Labour being the more authoritarian.

I don't think that political compass is fair (putting tem next to UKIP) to the Conservatives under Cameron's leadership and rebranding, but then again it hasn't been updated for years.

Energize · 16 May 2011 at 00:35

naffa said:
Please tell me you're joking, and that you don't actually believe that.

The evidence speaks for itself, mass (ineffectual) surveillance and dna database, id card scheme, criminalising things based on personal taste, detention without trial, ridiculous anti terror laws resulting in photographers being arrested, propaganda campaigns where you were told to report people to the police if they had cleaning chemicals in their rubbish, etc.

bhavv · 16 May 2011 at 00:38

Does this mean that I am a hippie?

But I dont wanna be a hippie

Biohazard · 16 May 2011 at 00:40

Amleto said:
is this bad?

I'd say so, yes. To get anywhere near (which I somehow can't) I've got to strongly agree with some pretty backwards thinking to say the least

bhavv said:
Does this mean that I am a hippie?

But I dont wanna be a hippie

Doesn't really mean anything to be truthful I don't think I'd have you positioned as such

Hatter The Mad · 16 May 2011 at 00:41

naffa said:
Please tell me you're joking, and that you don't actually believe that.

Authoritarian at least.

1) ID cards
2) Terror laws
3) Overreaching police powers
4) Overreaching power of the executive vs parliament and even cabinet
5) DNA database/extension of retention
6) Surveillance
7) More pieces of criminalising legislation passed than there were days spent in government
8) Big increase in taxation on the majority of the population (via fiscal drag), some of it redistributed in the form of for-purpose credits (ie telling you how to live)

bhavv · 16 May 2011 at 00:43

I agree with surveillance, and that people with a strong risk of passing on dangerous genetic diseases not being allowed to breed, but I am still a lefty according to this.

Biohazard · 16 May 2011 at 00:44

bhavv said:
I agree with surveillance, and that people with a strong risk of passing on dangerous genetic diseases not being allowed to breed, but I am still a lefty according to this.

It doesn't really matter what a 40-50 question internet questionare makes of it, it prejudges a lot of the data you give it anyway.

It's not a legally binding judgement

Energize · 16 May 2011 at 00:48

bhavv said:
I agree with surveillance,

Combined with the other factors it's an indication of authoritarianism but alone it doesn't necessarily mean that someone is authoritarian.

Amp34 · 16 May 2011 at 00:51

All you guys in the middle green, who did you vote for in the last General Election?

It's also good to see that I'm not stupid for lumping the Lib Dems and Conservatives in a similar light!

Energize · 16 May 2011 at 00:52

Amp34 said:
All you guys in the middle green, who did you vote for?

Lib Dems.

bhavv · 16 May 2011 at 00:52

They were just questions on the questionnaire that my answers didnt seem very lefty to. All the other answers were though.

If money was not an issue, than I would have no problem with every person including me being under surveillance.

Amp34 said:
All you guys in the middle green, who did you vote for?

UKIP lol.

Biohazard · 16 May 2011 at 00:52

Amp34 said:
All you guys in the middle green, who did you vote for?

SNP both votes in Scottish Parliament, and for Westminster.

dowie · 16 May 2011 at 00:55

KNiVES said:
Lib Dem and Labour are left-wing. Conservatives are right-wing.

It's why the conservatives wanted FPTP, they know they are the only real choice on the right, whereas the left is split.

edit: it's actually even in the names... 'Liberal' Democrats as opposed to the 'Conservatives'

Bit simplistic and rather missing the point the OP was making - modern conservative policy isn't too out of line with the liberal part of the party.

Take the Orange book for example - tis rather libertarian and more in line with Cameron etc.. than with the social democrat side of the party.

Naffa · 16 May 2011 at 08:28

Energize said:
The evidence speaks for itself, mass (ineffectual) surveillance and dna database, id card scheme, criminalising things based on personal taste, detention without trial, ridiculous anti terror laws resulting in photographers being arrested, propaganda campaigns where you were told to report people to the police if they had cleaning chemicals in their rubbish, etc.

And you think that constitutes evidence of totalitarianism...? Unbelievable. Go and live in North Korea for a while, or read the Republic of Fear by Kanan Makiya for an example of what totalitarianism actually is. Or better still, read Nineteen Eighty Four by George Orwell.

Hatter The Mad said:
Authoritarian at least.

I won't argue with that.

ots3go · 16 May 2011 at 14:01

Xandos · 16 May 2011 at 14:21

That was filling it out with what I see as almost invulnerable common sense...

On topic, the conservatives are racist.

Labour and Lib Dems try not to be...

Xelene · 16 May 2011 at 14:52

Hatter The Mad said:
To those who say the Lib Dems are 'left wing', you should read the Orange Book. The Lib Dems are currently lead by free market libertarians, essentially.

They are a frankenstein party, though. They have a big base who would consider themselves more left wing than (not New) Labour.

Fact is, all three of the main parties are centre-right, with Labour being the more authoritarian.

I don't think that political compass is fair (putting tem next to UKIP) to the Conservatives under Cameron's leadership and rebranding, but then again it hasn't been updated for years.

All good points, i'd say the Political Compass is a better view than the simple left right dogma that gets trotted out - but yes it's still heavily flawed.