Messed up at work, need advice...

Dabbles · 26 May 2011 at 22:19

gambitt said:
No no no...Go in with an "you're a bunch of pedantic morons and this is a waste of time" attitude and call their bluff. "Sack me if you dare".

Honestly, it's a great feeling. Yes I got sacked but what I did was arguably a lot worse

The trouble is to these people it won't seem like a waste of time, it will be a perfect opportunity for them to justify their positions.

gambitt · 26 May 2011 at 22:21

Dabbles said:
The trouble is to these people it won't seem like a waste of time, it will be a perfect opportunity for them to justify their positions.

So they give him a written warning. He should just tear it up and tell them he'll be getting back to work now. They wouldn't dare try to sack someone like this for a first "offence".

matthab · 26 May 2011 at 22:35

The fact is you made a mistake and while it was a rookie one and should not of happened. Save it for lunch breaks and pub trips if you feel the need.

You boss is just winding you up. I recon you will get a sit down and a small talking too. Be apologetic and explain it was meant to be a joke between colleagues. The worst you will get is a written warning.

Listen and learn from it.

Limpnoodle · 26 May 2011 at 22:38

Burn it to the ground.

Dave M · 26 May 2011 at 22:48

You know it was a mistake, and you know why, either the big man wants to dominate you or he wants to get some constructive criticism.

If he just wants to dominate you bend over or go for the jugular and quit / be sacked.

If he wants constructive criticism (unlikely but you never know) then it could do you good to have something ready that won't come across as a rant. Your email was destructive criticism, he may just want to know if you have any sense behind your attitude.

McPhee · 26 May 2011 at 22:56

If you were walking in to my office I'd expect you to apologise for writing the email, I'd expect you to admit you are a fool for writing the email in the first place and I'd expect you to stick to your opinion that the system is no good, and be able to justify that opinion. If you didn't stick by your opinion then my own opinion would default to 'this guy either has no backbone', or 'this guy likes finding things to bitch and moan about'. Neither of those are good things and neither would help you keep your job. Your 10% chance of coming back in the next day would be if I happened to agree with what you were saying or if I understood your reasoning and position. You still wouldn't get off scot-free, choosing to bitch to your colleagues instead of speaking up in the first place would count heavily against you, but you'd get away with disciplinary action.

That's just one opinion. Everone's different. I know people who would sack you any which way, and others who would keep you if you were suitably meek (though you would be best advised to start looking for another job if you get that last one, your career at that place would be over).

Dabbles · 26 May 2011 at 23:01

Telescopi said:
You know it was a mistake, and you know why, either the big man wants to dominate you or he wants to get some constructive criticism.

If he just wants to dominate you bend over or go for the jugular and quit / be sacked.

If he wants constructive criticism (unlikely but you never know) then it could do you good to have something ready that won't come across as a rant. Your email was destructive criticism, he may just want to know if you have any sense behind your attitude.

This.

satchef1 said:
If you were walking in to my office I'd expect you to apologise for writing the email, I'd expect you to admit you are a fool for writing the email in the first place and I'd expect you to stick to your opinion that the system is no good, and be able to justify that opinion.

If you don't do the first two then you're obviously an arrogant idiot. If you don't do the third then you're spineless. The email has already betrayed your opinion. They know that you think the system is crap. The problem you have now is trying to work out whether or not they'll sack you for your opinion. I guess you'll know the people better than anyone here and how they'd react, but if it was our place you'd be out the door if you didn't stand up for what you think. You might still be out the door if we don't agree with what you're saying or if we think you're talking bull poo.

And the first bit of this. I'm not sure on the sacking someone because you disagree with them.

HungryHippos · 26 May 2011 at 23:03

BringTheRain said:
Slightly off topic, I know how you feel OP

We had an email from a customer, and we used to change the title bar to who was gonna reply. So i put. Deano reply to this customer, otherwise i will shank ya!

He replied to customer

An Hour later she replied. At the end she put Ps Hope you avoided the shanking lol

Boss saw it and had a written warning

lol that's pretty funny

McPhee · 26 May 2011 at 23:18

Dabbles said:
This.

And the first bit of this. I'm not sure on the sacking someone because you disagree with them.

He wouldn't be sacked because we disagree with him. If he had a valid point and could explain himself then that would count in his favour. He'd still be in trouble over the email, but he'd have proved that he has potential worth to the company. If he didn't have a point then that just leaves a simple question of 'what's the appropriate punishment for this email?'.

HangTime · 26 May 2011 at 23:21

Don't know if I've ever heard of anyone getting 3 individual bollockings from incrementally higher managers. Seems a bit like overkill to me, don't they have anything better to do?

If I was the "big boss" I'd likely hope that the managers underneath me were capable of dealing with a situation like this. Your behaviour is unacceptable, but in essence it should be a fairly straightforward thing for a line manager to deal with - a dressing down, formal warning in conjunction with HR explaining why it is unacceptable together with a warning about future conduct, and letting the more senior management know that it has been dealt with.

TheBigCheese · 26 May 2011 at 23:36

It sounds like an over the top reaction to me.

If it's your first offence and you've done nothing else negative of note then they would have a hell of a time justifying firing you - employment legislation is so far skewed to the individual it's very difficult to get rid of someone so I don't think you have anything to worry about there...and if they do fire you, you should have a good case against them I would think.

Would it be a good idea to record the conversation? The way you have written it (and said) it does sound like you are going to the headmasters office which is a ridiculous thing when you are in a professional environment.

What are you officially going in for? Is it a meeting, is it a disciplinary? If it's the latter are you able to take a co-worker in with you for support/witness. Can you record the conversation - either by putting your phone on the table or if necessary (as they aren't obliged to allow it) keep it in your pocket?

Hope it goes well for you.

Marshstyles · 27 May 2011 at 01:22

Pestilence said:
Fact is, you're NOT at ******* school. It's a professional environment, and you should expect to be spoken to like a professional.

A dressing down is all well and good... a belittling bollocking that makes you feel 5 years old again, is not.

All you can do is apologise for what you said and explain yourself clearly, without being defensive. Accept the criticism and whatever is levelled at you but do NOT bend over and take all kinds of finger pointing and shouting like some little bitch.

I sure as hell wouldn't, and if any manager, CEO or not, tried to speak to me like anything less than a colleague I'd be out the door just as quickly as I can rip their own self esteem to shreds.

I've skipped every post after this one...however

This is the reason why i could never work in the retail market or in a kitchen again. People talking to you/treat you like you're a piece of ****.

Damn, it makes so angry! :mad:

Shame i was 16 years old, my first job(s) and didnt know any different. If someone dare talk/shout at me like that now i put their face in a fry vat.
The amount of bullying/shouting i saw at my work place makes me so angry looking back on it. Happiest day of my life leaving that place. I ******* hate bullying at all levels.

I had a pretty good boss after this. He was a realist, he never once shouted at me even when i did make a rare mistake (maybe 1 or 2 in 5 years). He said there is no point shouting or making anyone feel small because accidents happen, mistakes are made.

Back on topic, to the OP. What else can you do? They want blood or what? Anyway who wants a yes man working for them? If I was in charge id be asking you for some constructive criticism.

Best of luck boss

and some of these posts are jokes lol xD

Jaap74 · 27 May 2011 at 02:00

Getting told off once is enough, 3 times is stupid

TheBigCheese · 27 May 2011 at 02:12

Marshstyles said:
If someone dare talk/shout at me like that now i put their face in a fry vat.

Yes because horrifically burning or killing someone is a justified response to someone talking to you...they're disrespecting you after all... :rolleyes:

Reading that post this came to mind...

MagicBoy · 27 May 2011 at 02:30

“So, Peter, what's happening? Aahh, now, are you going to go ahead and have those TPS reports for us this afternoon?"

If you've not seen Office Space, you really should...

Marshstyles · 27 May 2011 at 03:14

TheBigCheese said:
Yes because horrifically burning or killing someone is a justified response to someone talking to you...they're disrespecting you after all...

Hmmm i had worded my post differently in my head...but you're right I might have over reacted a bit

It does make me angry looking back on it, some people are just nasty and do deserve bad things to happen to them.

If i read in some news story that some 18 year old kid had stab his Gordon Ramsley wonnabe boss in the face with a knife after 2 years of abuse i'd understand where the kid was coming from.

Scrutinize · 27 May 2011 at 07:08

satchef1 said:
Neither of those are good things and neither would help you keep your job. Your 10% chance of coming back in the next day would be if I happened to agree with what you were saying or if I understood your reasoning and position. You still wouldn't get off scot-free, choosing to bitch to your colleagues instead of speaking up in the first place would count heavily against you, but you'd get away with disciplinary action.

That's just one opinion. Everone's different. I know people who would sack you any which way, and others who would keep you if you were suitably meek (though you would be best advised to start looking for another job if you get that last one, your career at that place would be over).

You may want to read up a bit more on employment law whilst you spend time in 'your office' or is than an ivory tower

Energize · 27 May 2011 at 07:18

I can't even believe anyone in the company cares, they must surely have people complaining about the IT systems day in day out just like any other company?

Pookie Bear · 27 May 2011 at 07:30

GD is as awesome as ever. Let's whip the guy up into a frenzy of self-righteous anger so he blows his stack at a senior manager and finds himself in more bother than he is already.

Well played, GD, well played.

*golf clap*

Garonazz · 27 May 2011 at 11:10

He probably didn't read any of that crap anyway, he will be at work now.