Landlord and mahooosive leccy bill

[Wicksta]

I was aware they were estimates, yes. I don't see the contradition.

So you knew that the meter readings weren't being recorded but 'didn't think it would be necessary to routinely check the meter yourselves given that they were read multiple times'? That's what I'm confused about. If you knew they were all estimates then surely, on the contrary, you'd have thought it would be necessary to routinely check the meter yourselves to avoid something like this happening over two years of estimates.

 

[Mansize_tissue]

For what it's worth, he lives in a huge country estate/mansion so is very well off. I don't know if burning it down would work in our favour, though!

 

[Mansize_tissue]

So you knew that the meter readings weren't being recorded but 'didn't think it would be necessary to routinely check the meter yourselves given that they were read multiple times'? That's what I'm confused about. If you knew they were all estimates then surely, on the contrary, you'd have thought it would be necessary to routinely check the meter yourselves.

Given that this is our first house, I guess we just didn't know it was our responsibility to provide meter readings. In fact, I didn't even know this was an option until I read the small print on one of the bills where it stated the facility of entering them online ourselves. We were of the mindset that they were being read, so "they'll probably be updated by the time the next bill came round...". Continuing to think this after every bill was, in hindsight, a very bad move.

 

[Destination]

For what it's worth, he lives in a huge country estate/mansion so is very well off. I don't know if burning it down would work in our favour, though!

He probably pays for the electric he uses also
Anyway, 4 people £60 a month, when you don't use oil or gas, and your only source of heat is electric, through two of the coldest winters ever.

Not surprised you used more electric than you assumed. Now the issue is fixed, how much are you using montly above the average quote, given that there has likely been absolutely no heat on recently at all due to a nice warm april/may.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

your best speaking to an expert, lawyer or citizens advice bureau. they will tell you the best course of action to take from there on in, you guys are liable for the electricity as you cannot prove it was the boiler which sapped up all the juice, he could argue it was the tv, washing, machine, etc. therefore you will need to pay the electricity in full yourselves.

the landlord will probably need to pay for repairs to the boiler. damage done to the building i have no clue about, depends on how many times you told the landlord about the boiler, damp, condensation, etc.

 

[Castiel]

Ultimately you are responsible for the electricity bills, it is not a matter for your landlord.

The landlord should have been informed of the issue with the thermostat so that it can be fixed and that, along with any incidental damage caused directly by the faulty boiler are his responsibility, but reading your bills properly and paying for the services you use are up to you and you cannot expect the landlord to contribute to your own naivety and carelessness. £60 monthly bills for electricity for 4 adults is pretty low and you should have been more aware that the estimation was obviously incorrect.

Pay what you owe and remember to read your meter on occasion and give the Electricity provider updated readings.

 

[iraiguana]

You made an assumption and it now kicking you in the rear.

You should use the fact that the issue is relating to a failed repair of a known (to the landlord) problem of the boiler.

You should have been ensuring the bills were up to date with regards to the meter reading. You should get him to fix the boiler, then get a bill from the electric for the correct amount so far used.

Once he has fixed the boiler, attach a covering letter with the bill and explain the fact you have been paying the normal amount (attach estimate bill) and that the new reading relates to the direct failure of the boiler.

Good luck and hope they are not too bad a landlord and take pity and pay it for you. This is an unlikely outcome in most circumstances.

 

[Mansize_tissue]

He probably pays for the electric he uses also
Anyway, 4 people £60 a month, when you don't use oil or gas, and your only source of heat is electric, through two of the coldest winters ever.

Not surprised you used more electric than you assumed. Now the issue is fixed, how much are you using montly above the average quote, given that there has likely been absolutely no heat on recently at all due to a nice warm april/may.

Unfortunately I didn't make a record of the meter reading after the fault was fixed so I couldn't say. To be fair I really should have done, then at least we'd have some numbers to quote. The best I could do is read it now, then again in a months time when our tenancy ends.

Would it be unreasonable to assume it should now be similar to the previous tenants' average monthly usage now the problem is fixed? In reality it should be less as when we moved in I swapped all of the lights to energy saving ones, and we all make a conscious effort to save electricity. All other variables are pretty much unchanged. When we viewed the house while the previous tenants were living here it certainly didn't seem like they were very energy-conscious, though obviously making this sort of judgement is flimsy given we only observed about 10 minutes of how they lived while looking around.

 

[Destination]

Well if you make a reading now, and then later you have to consider your electrically heated house, will have not used any heating at all, so any reading you take is going to be basically worthless.

How much have you used in the past month? Or have you taken absolutely no readings at all?

 

[the_r_sole]

my estimated bills even show what the meter should read if their estimates are correct, all you have to do is pay attention

 

[Castiel]

Unfortunately I didn't make a record of the meter reading after the fault was fixed so I couldn't say. To be fair I really should have done, then at least we'd have some numbers to quote. The best I could do is read it now, then again in a months time when our tenancy ends.

Would it be unreasonable to assume it should now be similar to the previous tenants' average monthly usage now the problem is fixed? In reality it should be less as when we moved in I swapped all of the lights to energy saving ones, and we all make a conscious effort to save electricity. All other variables are pretty much unchanged. When we viewed the house while the previous tenants were living here it certainly didn't seem like they were very energy-conscious, though obviously making this sort of judgement is flimsy given we only observed about 10 minutes of how they lived while looking around.

Yes in would be unreasonable to assume that you and your sharers use similar amounts of electricity to the previous tenants, you have no way of knowing what their energy usage was or the difference in energy prices and providers.

Even things such as different appliances and electrical equipment such as TV's etc can have a huge impact on the average usage.

The Landlord will point out that you are contractually responsible for the electricity bill and regardless of the boiler fault it is up to you to pay it.

 

[clv101]

I think you will have to pay. While it is the landlords responsibility to repair items it is your responsibility to notify him of faults. If he isn't aware of a problem then he cannot fix it.

Also if you had phoned the electric company with a meter and got an actual bill (not estimated) then you may have seen the issue first.

I would also assume you will be responsibility for paying to repair the water damage caused by the boiler, again because its your duty to notify the landlord.

Agree with this.

Am I right to think you've paid £60 a month for 12 months (£720) and now you think you owe an extra £1200-1500?

At 12p/kWh, £60/month = ~17kwh per day. That sounds about right for a house without gas, with the usage you've described.

It it was actually £180 (the extra £1200) a month, that would be 50kwh per day - a crazy amount - but one that could be explained by having an electric water heater on quite a lot.

Two points/lessons:
Always provide a meter reading, never pay estimates.
Always inform landlord of 'issues' with a property asap.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Unfortunately I didn't make a record of the meter reading after the fault was fixed so I couldn't say. To be fair I really should have done, then at least we'd have some numbers to quote. The best I could do is read it now, then again in a months time when our tenancy ends.

Would it be unreasonable to assume it should now be similar to the previous tenants' average monthly usage now the problem is fixed? In reality it should be less as when we moved in I swapped all of the lights to energy saving ones, and we all make a conscious effort to save electricity. All other variables are pretty much unchanged. When we viewed the house while the previous tenants were living here it certainly didn't seem like they were very energy-conscious, though obviously making this sort of judgement is flimsy given we only observed about 10 minutes of how they lived while looking around.

there is no point in any of that, he could argue that you used the tv a lot, etc during that time and now you dont. its your word against his and at the end of the day your responsibility.

the electricity bill is a lost cause, dont even bother arguing about it, you will need to pay it either way.

damage to the flat is the one your going to need to get proper advice on from a trained professional.

 

[div0]

Why don't you take a reading now, and check again in a month.

That should give you a good idea of what you're using now the problem is fixed.

Take your readings for the last 2 years and work out the average for a month and compare it to the most recent one above. However, you've also to remember that it's summer now, so this months usage will be a lot less than a month in the winter. So probably best to compare to this month + 50%.

If they're similar, then you're just using more than you expected and the cost is all yours. If there's a big difference (ie you're using a lot less now), then the extra might have been caused by the fault.

 

[Mansize_tissue]

We haven't taken any readings recently at all given how difficult it is actually getting to the meter. Like I said, if it were an old woman living here then reading the meter would be an impossible feat.

All appliance are the same except personal laptops, tv and toaster. He surely couldn't argue that these would amount to such a large bill, though, could he? We are also on the same tariff from the same energy supplier to the previous tenants, though I suppose this is neither here nor there.

Psycho Sonny, thankfully he hasn't placed any blame on us for the damage caused as he probably realised we shouldn't be liable for it as it was completely out of our control. This is just regarding the electricity bill.

One can only hope he's feeling particularly sympathetic and offers some sort of compensation for what is partly his fault in not fixing a problem we identified quite early on.

Yes clv101, that's correct.

 

[the_r_sole]

appliances might be exactly the same, how can you prove that you use them exactly the same way as the previous occupiers?!
there's so many variables, maybe you spend 3 mins longer in the shower per day, or put on twice as many washings, maybe you eat more toast, watch more telly, use computers more etc etc etc

your landlord doesn't have to prove this is the case, you have to prove that it isn't - if you refuse to pay the bill start looking for a new flat with a very very bad reference

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Why don't you take a reading now, and check again in a month.

That should give you a good idea of what you're using now the problem is fixed.

Take your readings for the last 2 years and work out the average for a month and compare it to the most recent one above. However, you've also to remember that it's summer now, so this months usage will be a lot less than a month in the winter. So probably best to compare to this month + 50%.

If they're similar, then you're just using more than you expected and the cost is all yours. If there's a big difference (ie you're using a lot less now), then the extra might have been caused by the fault.

We haven't taken any readings recently at all given how difficult it is actually getting to the meter. Like I said, if it were an old woman living here then reading the meter would be an impossible feat.

All appliance are the same except personal laptops, tv and toaster. He surely couldn't argue that these would amount to such a large bill, though, could he? We are also on the same tariff from the same energy supplier to the previous tenants, though I suppose this is neither here nor there.

Psycho Sonny, thankfully he hasn't placed any blame on us for the damage caused as he probably realised we shouldn't be liable for it as it was completely out of our control. This is just regarding the electricity bill.

One can only hope he's feeling particularly sympathetic and offers some sort of compensation for what is partly his fault in not fixing a problem we identified quite early on.

Yes clv101, that's correct.

i dont think you guys realise how cold the recent winter was, and your using electric heating.

if your landlord has any sense he wont pay a penny of it. you cannot prove it was the boiler, therefore you dont have a leg to stand on.

 

[Fuzz]

If it is massively difficult to take a meter reading how come you had "multiple meter reading taken during the year" if the meter man managed it, I can't see how you couldn't?

 

[Destination]

At 12p/kWh, £60/month = ~17kwh per day. That sounds about right for a house without gas, with the usage you've described.

With electric heating and electric showers?
We use that in a small 2/3 bedroom house which has oil heating, so twice as many using no oil should use more.
Is the house economy 7? If so are you in an economy 7 band and tarrif?

 

[Mansize_tissue]

Despite the very cold winters we managed to survive with very little use of the storage heaters in the house. In fact, only 2 were used and even then it was only occasional so this wouldn't have impacted the bill as much as you might think. Also jumpers are your friend. We cannot prove it was the boiler, no. But anyone with any sense would realise that it would be impossible to run up a bill like this with, what most consider, less-than-normal electricity use.

Also the leccy guy managed to get to the meter with a great deal of time and effort. It was not impossible for us, no. But, all of us being very busy with our degrees, prioritised our work over trying to get to our electricity meter.

Also yes, Hikari Kisugi, it says economy 7 electric tariff DD on our bills.