Landlord and mahooosive leccy bill

pcoltrane · 31 May 2011 at 15:26

£60 a month for 4 adults in an electricity only house, with storage heaters? Not a chance! My wife and I use more than that with just the two of us, energy saving bulbs throughout, no tumbledrier + heating, all water, and hobs all on gas!

I'm betting that no more than a couple of % of the bill is down to the boiler - the rest is simply what you used. Sounds like it's time to come to terms with the reality of what energy costs these days.

As a quick example of what you might spend - if you have a 10kW electric shower and all 4 of you have a 6 min shower each day. Thats approx 25p (your daytime rate for 1kW) x 10 x 24/60 = £1.00 Which means you could be spending £30 a month easily on showering alone. In reality you might even spend significantly longer in the shower than that!

clv101 · 31 May 2011 at 15:37

AcidHell2 said:
Wind turbine is a comparatively less to install and more electric compared...

Yeah but this is compensated for with the differential FiT so the rate of return for both technologies is the same.

clv101 · 31 May 2011 at 15:38

Glaucus · 31 May 2011 at 15:40

clv101 said:
Yeah but this is compensated for with the differential FiT so the rate of return for both technologies is the same.

True but you still need a bigger outlay for same kwh actually harvested and of course FIT won't be around for ever, however I believe it is safeguarded for 25years though. And hasn't thermal FIT just started as well?

Also in the next 5 years PV is expected to half in price and double inefficiency. Which would swing the balance massively. Have to wait and see if that comes true. Wind I feel hasn't got much more research scope for large gains.

Metalface Mark · 31 May 2011 at 15:44

clv101 said:
If building your only property! Indeed, then you might be the one in 20 where wind makes sense, for the other 95% of us (yourself included it seems!) solar is the way to go.

If you want to make the best out of renewable energy then you are going to need to be building from the ground up anyway.

Greebo · 31 May 2011 at 16:02

Castiel said:
Given the amount of juice we consume it should pay for itself within 5-6 years, probably less if energy prices continue to rise as they are.

Really? Has things improved that much? Last time I looked at solar panels about 6 to 9 months ago, even Environmental sites were saying that solar panels were only cost neutral (eg the total cost of ownership over the the expected lifespan equalled money saved on heating etc)? In fact they said you should only do it for the CO2 savings and if you care about the planet. Plus it also said that praticulary everything else you could do to your house had a better payback than solar eg loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, energy efficient lightbulbs, triple glazing with K glass, turning your thermostat down 1 degree, etc

EDIT: Just checked and the FiT's make a big difference. Nice price btw of your installation. £12,000 is about typical for a 2.7kWp installation so to get a 4kWp for £12,000 is nice. Esitmated savings/paybacks from a 2.7kWp installation is £1,100 per year so I reckon you will get payback in about 7 years and then 18 years of profit. Nice. Must look at this again............

Glaucus · 31 May 2011 at 16:13

must have been old articles, even 9months ago they easily paid for themselves with FIT and of course part or all of your electricity provided by the PV cell, depending on size and usage.

Thought it was about ~20 years payback without including the FIT. I would have another look if you were interested.

http://www.spiritsolar.co.uk/sapcal...eads&gclid=CPGPo9a9kqkCFVJX4Qod-RqjjQ#results

4kw systems is 14k to install. South facing @ 30degree angle. 13p per unit. Modern cells last 30years.

Expected system performance
Annual Output: 3433kwh
Applicable Feed-In Tariff: £0.433
FIT per Annum: £1486.75
Savings on Electricity Bill: 223.18
Export Tariff: £51.50
Total Annual Tariffs / savings:£1761.44

Payback 8 years.

Metalface Mark · 31 May 2011 at 16:16

The FITs changed middle of last year to make renewables a very viable option.

Castiel · 31 May 2011 at 16:20

Greebo said:
Really? Has things improved that much? Last time I looked at solar panels about 6 to 9 months ago, even Environmental sites were saying that solar panels were only cost neutral (eg the total cost of ownership over the the expected lifespan equalled money saved on heating etc)? In fact they said you should only do it for the CO2 savings and if you care about the planet. Plus it also said that praticulary everything else you could do to your house had a better payback than solar eg loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, energy efficient lightbulbs, triple glazing with K glass, turning your thermostat down 1 degree, etc

With the size of the system we are having installed it should cut our overall costs by 50% and with FiT it should produce between £900 and £1200 on top of those savings.

Even at the most pessimistic estimates it should have paid for itself with 10years, well within it's estimated lifecycle.

We have already done pretty much everything else you list, including more efficient boiler and installing smart sockets to save on standby consumption.

Greebo · 31 May 2011 at 16:24

AcidHell2 said:
must have been old articles, even 9months ago they easily paid for themselves with FIT and of course part or all of your electricity provided by the PV cell, depending on size and usage.

Thought it was about ~20 years payback without including the FIT. I would have another look if you were interested.

http://www.spiritsolar.co.uk/sapcal...eads&gclid=CPGPo9a9kqkCFVJX4Qod-RqjjQ#results

4kw systems is 14k to install. South facing @ 30degree angle. 13p per unit. Modern cells last 30years.

Expected system performance
Annual Output: 3433kwh
Applicable Feed-In Tariff: £0.433
FIT per Annum: £1486.75
Savings on Electricity Bill: 223.18
Export Tariff: £51.50
Total Annual Tariffs / savings:£1761.44

Payback 8 years.

Cheers for that. Thinking back it might have been over a year ago now that I looked.

Only issue for us might be planning as our roof which is south facing is facing the road and we live in a rural village.

Stretch · 31 May 2011 at 16:26

If it's a gas boiler the landlord should have it checked once a year and the problem would have been found.

Fourstar · 31 May 2011 at 17:24

What is to say the government doesn't decide to slash FiT a couple of years down the line? Are the levels locked in at purchase time for the life of the installation?

Western Australia has halved theirs and Germany has plans to reduce theirs both this and next year :/

clv101 · 31 May 2011 at 17:32

Fourstar said:
What is to say the government doesn't decide to slash FiT a couple of years down the line? Are the levels locked in at purchase time for the life of the installation?

Western Australia has halved theirs and Germany has plans to reduce theirs both this and next year :/

For systems already built, their FiT payment is as secure as can be. By that I mean it would take a new act of parliament to change it. For systems yet to be built, the Government can change future rates - and it very likely to do so (downwards) in the next few years.

If you interested in FiT the message is buy sooner rather than later - however, prices are falling fast. A 4 kWp system a year ago was around £14k, now that's around £12k and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that down to around £10 next year.

the_r_sole · 31 May 2011 at 17:32

Fourstar said:
What is to say the government doesn't decide to slash FiT a couple of years down the line? Are the levels locked in at purchase time for the life of the installation?

Western Australia has halved theirs and Germany has plans to reduce theirs both this and next year :/

good point, if you are seriously interested about micro-renewables install something that is actually useful (solar hot water/geo-thermal etc) that will continue to work for the house after the government bail on FiT - or spend your money on insulation!

Squid · 31 May 2011 at 18:08

cHk4 said:
Our electric bill is around £1,500 a year -.-

!! What are you growing

3 students doing Computer stuff at uni and its only £600, that with a electric cooking and showers.

Castiel · 31 May 2011 at 18:22

Fourstar said:
What is to say the government doesn't decide to slash FiT a couple of years down the line? Are the levels locked in at purchase time for the life of the installation?

Western Australia has halved theirs and Germany has plans to reduce theirs both this and next year :/

Rates are fixed at 43.5p (index linked) until 2035. Tariffs change in April 2012 by 9% to 39.4p, but again that would be guaranteed until 2037 on installations completed within that year.

It would take an act of parliament to change this and even then it would be open to legal challenge as it would be an arbitrary change to an existing legal contract.

the_r_sole · 31 May 2011 at 18:34

...and it's lucky that politicians (and especially tory governments) have no record of cuts/major policy changes isn't it!!

folk that are doing this purely for the FiT incentive are getting it all wrong imo, we should be trying to reduce what we need and use what we can make, not sign up to a government money making scheme

Bloomfield · 31 May 2011 at 18:47

Stretch said:
If it's a gas boiler the landlord should have it checked once a year and the problem would have been found.

If it was a gas boiler it would have had no effect on his electric bill

.