Poll: Terry Pratchet what the...

[Shoei]

There has been quite a lot of discussion and appeals about assisted suicide in the MS community. Having been to MS meetings and seen how it can leave people, you can see why they are wanting the law changed.
An example here of someone being hit so hard by Primary Progressive MS, it took away their normal life in 2 years.

 

[britboy4321]

Water is not a treatment, it is not an anti dote. He did not say he wanted medical help. Your scenario also is totally different.

Water was the best treatment there was. It could have saved his life by diluting the poison.

If I am bleeding and say I want a bandage but do not state 'I want medical help' .. do you

a) Think I want that bandage to stop myself bleeding

or

b) Think I want it to put on my head as a hat?

Simple question ..

 

[pingwing]

Indeed. I think this one should not bee seen in isolation. There is much more context when you put the whole series together.

Oh, and I'm ignoring Britboy now.

It's been such an interesting journey into how Alzheimer's has completely transformed his life and his out look on death to a point where I genuinely feel for him. Plus it has gained an insight into the change of his writing style over the last 5-10 years as unfortunately one or two stories have started to follow similar themes and trends (still good books but its the effect of his illness).

Some people want to smash their heads into walls time and time again to try and drive out the devils that are inside that whisper for them to do horrible things to people.

Should we stand back and say 'fair enough .. their choice ...' ???

Whats the difference?

Burnsy iv quoted above to show that the rational choice is not to rise to the troll, but iv taken the irrational choice (in my view) to point out it is not up to anyone to dictate to anyone else what they want to do with their own lives. It might seem irrational and it might seem uncompassionate but ultimately we do not have the right to tell someone you are not allowed to choose how you want to die, or dictate to people that they have to take the rational choice.

As was highlighted in the programme we are ensured the right to self determination by the UN, so we all have the right to choose our own life or death. So with your random hypothetical situations that have no bearing on the situation given they are just random "what if's" we cant really stop this person.

 

[Klo]

Britboy, there are plenty of threads you can use to cure your twisted need for attention on the internet, but this one isn't it.

Show some respect and stop being a tool. You should be ashamed of yourself.

This exactly.

 

[Glaucus]

Water was the best treatment there was. It could have saved his life by diluting the poison...

no it isn't, I'm assuming he drunk it, in which case a stomach pump, charcoal. Blood transfusion. Possibly other drugs etc etc is the medical attention he needs.

If I am bleeding and say I want a bandage but do not state 'I want medical help' .. do you

a) Think I want that bandage to stop myself bleeding

or

b) Think I want it to put on my head as a hat?

Simple question ..

You have not gone through a process of legally wanting suicide and making your edges clear, again water is not a cure and won't help. The scenario is totally different.

Will be watching it when I getbhome, shortly.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Because there's no alternative that we can think of, that wouldn't result in people killing themselves that didn't really want to .. as discussed ..

So let's weigh this up for a second, we've got a hypothetical chance of people being coerced into killing themselves (which can have safeguards put in to stop most situations) vs the very real and current risk of people living with terminal illnesses who wish to die but cannot.

If we've got to make a decision that is unpleasant then it usually makes sense to go with the one that gives the greatest good or minimises the harm done. It's not the only possible way of determining the issue for difficult decisions but it's a valid choice despite your arguments to the contrary.

I'd say that 98% of the people that choose to have pets put down are because of financial reasons.

They just say its to be nice to the animal to justify the act to themselves.

For example, we are perfectly capable of repairing a race horses broken leg and them having a full normal life but never racing again. But we always have them put down. It's a financially motivated decision. Having animals put down almost always is ..

That would be quite frankly nonsense, race horses are not always put down - it might be the vast majority of cases because it's often a financial decision as an investment but a number will be rehabilitated even if they never race again, especially if they've already won a few races where the aim will probably be to put them to stud. However if you can highlight a hypothetical with a vanishingly small likelihood as being indicative of the real world then presumably when the situation is reversed and something with a small likelihood of being true but is actually demonstrably the case on occasion (such as here) then you will immediately stop pursuing the previous line of argument?

He didn't specify whether he wanted it for medical benefits or not.

He wasn't asked. but if for example everyone in a room knew I was going to die unless I had a bandage, and I asked for that bandage, I think it's a pretty good guess that it's not because I wanted it to wear on my head as a hat, don't you!??!

He was simply refused a medical treatment, which he'd ASKED FOR. That refusal resulted in him dying. a thing you want 100% legal. That's the bottom line. And it's a pretty nasty bottom line ..

Did you actually watch the documentary? I ask because he was told that he couldn't have the water and he acquiesced to that - does that mean he made a final choice not to have the water when they said no? He didn't pursue the request any further - was this is final conscious act?*

I don't think he could have made it any clearer that he wanted to die yet what you're basically arguing is that the bodies instinctive reaction to save itself as a physical vessel should be allowed to override the conscious decision of a man who determined his life should end.

*For anyone else I know it's somewhat dubious as to how much consent could be implied but why is one action the defining one yet the next (in)action is not - except that it wouldn't suit the point britboy4321 is making?

 

[Delvis]

Terry Who?

But seriously...Why complain? Don't like, don't watch...It's rather simple.

People do my head in sometimes

 

[Twentyone]

I'm in favour of assisted death for anyone who chooses it.

People talk about it as if you can just walk in and do it within the day. It's a very long process.

 

[Klo]

Terry Who?

But seriously...Why complain? Don't like, don't watch...It's rather simple.

People do my head in sometimes

Really? Very famous author?

 

[Craig1981]

Terry Who?

Your not serious?!

 

[mdb08]

No-one in their right mind would ever make such a request, unless maybe if coercion was playing a big part.

It's like saying 'If someone continually smashes their head against a wall screaming 'there's demons in my head' - what right do we have to put them in a padded cell and feeed them anti-psychotic drugs rather than smash their own brains out?

Because they need our help .. whether they know it or not.

You still don't exactly see do you that, your taking away some ones choice and making it for them. Why should their only option to be to go through all the pain and suffering?

 

[britboy4321]

I'm in favour of assisted death for anyone who chooses it.

People talk about it as if you can just walk in and do it within the day. It's a very long process.

So .. 'the process is very long, and needs to stay this way'

AND ...

'The current process is far too long, requiring spending - what - 20 minutes organising a flight to Switzerland. It's outrageous.'


.. er .. righty o' then ..

 

[mdb08]

Letting or coercing members of your society commit suicide because they are suffering is hardly a way to show respect for them.

If anything, it's disrespecting them.

What is disrespecting them, not honouring their wishes, or not honouring them with the choice of them to decide how they should end their life.

 

[Twentyone]

So .. 'the process is very long, and needs to stay this way'

AND ...

'The current process is far too long, requiring spending - what - 20 minutes organising a flight to Switzerland. It's outrageous.'


.. er .. righty o' then ..

What are you on about?

 

[Cosimo]

Your not serious?!

But seriously...

Stop being so serious.

 

[britboy4321]

What is disrespecting them, not honouring their wishes, or not honouring them with the choice of them to decide how they should end their life.

A person on a bad LSD trip after having their drink spiked is sure that spiders are crawling out of her fingers, and wants to chop off her digits with a steak knife.

The LSD trip is so bad, she's probably going to die.

Should you respect their wishes and let her start madly hacking her fingers off so as to 'show her respect'?


Yet again -- whats the difference?

 

[krooton]

So .. 'the process is very long, and needs to stay this way'

AND ...

'The current process is far too long, requiring spending - what - 20 minutes organising a flight to Switzerland. It's outrageous.'


.. er .. righty o' then ..

It's not a bloody walk-in-and-be-killed clinic.

 

[britboy4321]

What are you on about?

The whole argument is

'It's too much hassle ot go to Switzerland, where it can be legally done'

Yet then everyone spouts

'It has to be a load of hassle, to ensure the person makes the right choice'.


Just seems contradictory ..

 

[Brian8bit]

Yet again -- whats the difference?

Yet again another ridiculously extreme hypothetical situation with no relevance to the discussion at hand.

Seriously. Stop posting. It's like the more you post the dumber the thread becomes.

 

[krooton]

A person on a bad LSD trip after having their drink spiked is sure that spiders are crawling out of her fingers, and wants to chop off her digits with a steak knife.

The LSD trip is so bad, she's probably going to die.

Should you respect their wishes and let her start madly hacking her fingers off so as to 'show her respect'?


Yet again -- whats the difference?

LOL!!!! You cannot die from LSD.