Cameron doesn't care about the UK manufacturing industry

Aren't there EU laws that prevent members' governments from closing or rigging bidding processes like this (to prevent protectionism)?

If I was Bombardier, I'd be asking myself why I am not up to the mark, why my workforce is not up to he mark this missing out on this contact and a £7bn contract not too long ago.

Edit: If not laws, then pressure at least.
 
If I was Bombardier, I'd be asking myself why I am not up to the mark, why my workforce is not up to he mark this missing out on this contact and a £7bn contract not too long ago.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get your wish and the factory in Derby will be closed down.
 
Aren't there EU laws that prevent members' governments from closing or rigging bidding processes like this (to prevent protectionism)?

If I was Bombardier, I'd be asking myself why I am not up to the mark, why my workforce is not up to he mark this missing out on this contact and a £7bn contract not too long ago.

Edit: If not laws, then pressure at least.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get your wish and the factory in Derby will be closed down.
Where did I say that was my wish?

Whining about not winning contracts isn't going to do any good in a competitive marketplace. It's not even like we've flogged the contract to Indians or the Chinese on the cheap. Something is very wrong with Bombardier.
 
Our government must ensure they understand the enormous role of science and research and support it properly. It's one thing to get the tax/regulatory base right but this alone will not ensure the proper technologies are developed (many are in an embryonic stage and won't be profitable for many years).

Good point.

The big question from the government should be WHY we were not good enough. It's all very well people bemoaning the fact that manufacturing is offshored, but if we can't compete for the big projects then why complain?

We need to become competitive. We need to become the best. We need to be in a position to snap these contracts up, and return excellent results.

Who cares about history. I don't care that we used to be leaders in certain fields. We are not anymore and that's what i'm bothered about. We just moan moan moan and do nothing productive to make things better.
 
Good point.

The big question from the government should be WHY we were not good enough. It's all very well people bemoaning the fact that manufacturing is offshored, but if we can't compete for the big projects then why complain?

We need to become competitive. We need to become the best. We need to be in a position to snap these contracts up, and return excellent results.

Who cares about history. I don't care that we used to be leaders in certain fields. We are not anymore and that's what i'm bothered about. We just moan moan moan and do nothing productive to make things better.

How does closing down the last remaining train manufacturer in the UK make us more competitive at train manufacturing?

Food for thought: Prior to losing the FCC contract, Bombardier also lost a bigger contract to supply the new Inter-city trains to Hitachi. Hitachi mainly makes trains for the Japanese market. Can anyone guess how many foreign train manufacturers have ever won a contract to build trains for Japan?
 
Can anyone guess how many foreign train manufacturers have ever won a contract to build trains for Japan?

Probably because Japan has some of the world's finest manufacturers! It's not as though we're talking about Turkey or India shunning us, is it?

Japan and Germany are world leaders in high speed rail. We are not, despite pioneering rail technology and having more rail than the rest of the world put together at one point.

That said, I don't think our rail network is bad by any means.
 
Good point.

The big question from the government should be WHY we were not good enough. It's all very well people bemoaning the fact that manufacturing is offshored, but if we can't compete for the big projects then why complain?

We need to become competitive. We need to become the best. We need to be in a position to snap these contracts up, and return excellent results.

Who cares about history. I don't care that we used to be leaders in certain fields. We are not anymore and that's what i'm bothered about. We just moan moan moan and do nothing productive to make things better.
Yep, I think it really is all about being competitive - government needs to take a look at Germany, and find out what makes it a better environment to manufacture from than the UK. tbh they should just copy whatever the Germans are doing, as they are certainly doing rather better than us on the manufacturing front. Whether it's education, taxes, incentives, government advice/support for startups or whatever, we need to copy the Germans (and do better if we can!).

I do think it's probably not possible to have a sustainable labour intensive manufacturing industry - while we have the minimum wage, any process that needs lots of workers can just be done for far less in China. What needs to be supported is high-tech (probably automated) industries that may not employ many people, but nevertheless produce lots of high value goods for export. Now, I suppose attracting those industries is the hard part, but imo if you have the best educated (in STEM fields obviously - all the arts degrees are just a waste of money) workers, good infrastructure, and no difficult regulations or legal restrictions then surely that has got to make the UK an attractive place. The problem comes when our lack of competitiveness in labour intensive industries causes loser that are greater than gains from high tech industry.

I think the biggest single challenge is education - you need to start planning now, and making great efforts to push the STEM subjects that are so vital to this country becoming competitive in high tech manufacturing. This needs to start with glorification of STEM subjects in primary school, making GCSE and A-level STEM subjects more in depth and challenging, and also subsidising such courses at university, and removing all subsidy from courses that don't really contribute to the countries economy (i.e. the courses that churn out tescos checkout monkeys in greater numbers than ever before (right at the time when checkout monkeys are being phased out in favour of machines!)).
 
Probably because Japan has some of the world's finest manufacturers! It's not as though we're talking about Turkey or India shunning us, is it?

I'm sure that's what the Japanese will tell you as the reason why, same as the Germans will tell you that's why their manufacturers get so many of their government contracts, same as why the French will tell you that's why their manufacturers get so many French government contracts.

The law of averages would suggest that at least one non-Japanese company would have broken in that market, one imagines if you're a train manufacturer then Japan is quite an important market.

Japan and Germany are world leaders in high speed rail. We are not, despite pioneering rail technology and having more rail than the rest of the world put together at one point.

Well one thing's for sure, we won't be a world leader in high speed rail - the last UK based manufacturer is about to close down.
 
not the first industry the new government has shunned and it wont be the last

all those tax breaks promised and all those promises broken.

i can only blame our governments for nobody being able to competitively manufacture here any-more. we have thousands of unemployed skilled workers that other countries would dream of and at this rate they will all end up doing unskilled labour
 
we build a lot of satellites we just don't launch them from Britain.

there are numerous commercial launchers around the world we use.





They do make a nice bit of money.

Exactly, and just another example of the thriving manufacturing industry we have...

Just because we don't do heavy metal projects any more doesn't mean we don't manufacture...
 
not the first industry the new government has shunned and it wont be the last

all those tax breaks promised and all those promises broken.

i can only blame our governments for nobody being able to competitively manufacture here any-more. we have thousands of unemployed skilled workers that other countries would dream of and at this rate they will all end up doing unskilled labour

Again that drivel wouldn't explain why we have such a large and successful manufacturing industry... It's not like we're a top 10 manufacturing nation... Oh, wait!

Interesting to note, our manufacturing output has actually increased since the 1940's

Wiki said:
A 2009 report from PricewaterhouseCoopers, citing data from the UK Office for National Statistics, stated that manufacturing output (gross value added at 2007 prices) has increased in 35 of the 50 years between 1958 and 2007, and output in 2007 was at record levels, approximately double that in 1958.

And from the linked PDF...

http://www.pwc.co.uk/pdf/UKmanufacturing_300309.pdf

UK manufacturing is not dead, or even in terminal decline. The sector as a whole has ‘held on’ through severe recessions in the past and it will survive the current downturn – but we think it can and must do better than that. In our daily interactions with some of our clients we see efforts
and innovations already taking shape today which, if properly leveraged, could move the UK manufacturing sector from ‘surviving’ mode to ‘thriving’.

The UK has the 3rd largest automotive industry in Europe, with total sales of around £9bn...

A genuine world leader – the UK A&D [Aerospace and Defence] industry is second only to that of the US

A £10bn industry [Chemicals] with a £400m trade surplus in 2007

And TBH I think the issue really lies with this

•Output of British manufacturing reached an all-time high in 2007, even adjusted
for inflation
• The UK is the world’s 6th largest manufacturer with strong positions in certain key
industries, e.g. a 15% global market share in Aerospace
UK Manufacturing achieved a 50% increase in labour productivity from 1997-2007

That generally means layoffs/less employment, which is generally what hits the news.

That report is now 3 years old and we have dropped two places since then, due to the recession hitting us harder apparently however it does show that far from our manufacturing industry being in decline it's actually the complete opposite, with our specialities shifting rather than disappearing.

Obviously we can aim to do better but we need to remember that we aren't all that bad to start with!
 
UK economic composition: agriculture: 1.4%; industry: 18.2%; services: 80.4% (2006 est.)

That needs to be significantly improved upon, the adage "all your eggs in one basket" comes to mind. It leaves us in an over exposed position.
 
UK economic composition: agriculture: 1.4%; industry: 18.2%; services: 80.4% (2006 est.)

That needs to be significantly improved upon, the adage "all your eggs in one basket" comes to mind. It leaves us in an over exposed position.
Not least because it is more difficult to sell services rather than products internationally.
 
Again that drivel wouldn't explain why we have such a large and successful manufacturing industry... It's not like we're a top 10 manufacturing nation... Oh, wait!

That's true I'd forgotten about chemicals, iirc Britain is one of the top at chemical engineering and production.
 
UK economic composition: agriculture: 1.4%; industry: 18.2%; services: 80.4% (2006 est.)

That needs to be significantly improved upon, the adage "all your eggs in one basket" comes to mind. It leaves us in an over exposed position.

France: agriculture (2.1%), industry (19%), services (78.9%)
US: agriculture: (1.2%), industry: (21.9%), services: (76.9%)
Germany:agriculture: 0.8%; industry: 27.9%; services: 71,3%
Japan: agriculture: 4%, industry: 28%, services: 68%

China: industry (46.8%), services (43.6%), agriculture (9.6%)

Our service industry is a little higher than a selection of the other big players but not massively so. The only big difference is that of China but I hope you're not suggesting we become more like their economy... Either way the putting all your eggs in one basket would imply that we provided just one service, which we don't.

There's also an interesting bit in the PWC report

The UK manufacturing and engineering sector needs to survive, not only because it is important in its own right, but because it supports so many businesses in the services sector. Indeed, the distinction between ‘manufacturers’ and ‘service providers’ is becoming increasingly blurred, as products and services are increasingly bundled to together to provide differentiated value-added solutions. If manufacturing disappears, we believe a large element of the service sector would also be at risk.

Essentially a lot of UK companies provide a bundled solution (for better or for worse some might say), something that shows services are easily exportable. A couple of examples of this are companies like Haliburton and Schlumberger (yes, not British companies) who have spent a lot of money in recent times to get to a point where they provide "complete solutions" to companies that want their equipment or their service.
 
Last edited:
The group also recently lost out on a £7.5bn contract to build 1,400 high-speed trains for the east coast and the Great Western main lines.

Presumably their bid wasn't as competitive in either case?

The UK govt isn't a charity for any business that happens to have a factory in the UK - if you've got a bidding process that is open the foreign bids and that bidding process is run fairly then foreign firms will win some bids. That in itself isn't the fault of the UK government but rather the fault of the firm that lost the bid. Unless the OP can show something was dodgy in the bidding process then tbh.. the OP is just blowing off hot air.

I'm not sure I'd worry too much about a train manufacturer that happens to have a factory over here getting into trouble - they're hardly high on the list when it comes to state aid/bailouts. The main area where we do perhaps have to be careful about manufacturing is defence. For example AFAIK the swiss (being neutral) caused problems with the supply of new UGL rounds in the Iraq invasion (though this is 2nd hand info and could well be some BS we were told in theater).
 
Back
Top Bottom