PM: Treat Absent Dads Like Drink Drivers

Orcish-Horde · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:18

vincent1989 said:
he singled out fathers because it's fathers day, he singles out 'run away' dads because he realises not all have a choice.

Given the back drop to the issue, its insulting to all fathers that have been involved in a family brake up.

vincent1989 said:
not a fan of David Cameron at all but people here are either too over sensitive or are picking holes to further their agenda.

Having been treated as a second class parent in a family court due to being a father and not a mother, yes I have an agenda.

pmbuzz · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:19

Tefal said:
what if it's because the woman refuses to let them near the kids?

Exactly, did they even think it through before before he started pontificating.

vincent1989 · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:23

Orcish-Horde said:
Given the back drop to the issue, its insulting to all fathers that have been involved in a family brake up.

whoosh. it's insulting to all those so called 'fathers' who couldn't be bothered and so it should be!

Orcish-Horde said:
Having been treated as a second class parent in a family court due to being a father and not a mother, yes I have an agenda.

and you have my complete sympathy, I think it's disgraceful the women are almost given complete control when it comes to child custody too, but that is not what Cameron is talking about.

GreatAuk · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:23

My parents know someone whose wife left him and moved back to Greece with the son. He still pays her money (out of his very small wage), and in return the son still gets to visit occasionally (not for long, and the wife makes this as difficult as possible - who do you think has to get the plane both ways and escort the child? I'll give you a clue: it's not the mother), but hardly often enough to keep up a relationship with his father - made worse by how different the attitudes to child rearing are - the son is allowed to sit indoors and watch TV all day and overfed by his mum, while his dad doesn't sign up to that sort of thing, and so the son is grumpy all the time and constantly moans when he has to go outside.

I'd be willing to bet money that this kind of situation with vindictive mothers is not too uncommon, and tbh I don't think the fathers should take any blame at all for that state of affairs. In these cases it is the mothers that should face the stigma. Shame on David Cameron for this extremely one-sided take on things.

If anything he should be addressing the disparity in value of mothers and fathers - you can't have a system where mothers are favoured in ownership disputes (or whatever it's called), but then shout at the dads for not flying over to Greece more often.

Glaucus · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:24

vincent1989 said:
and you have my complete sympathy, I think it's disgraceful the women are almost given complete control when it comes to child custody too, but that is not what Cameron is talking about.

All though he's not talking about it, don't you think he should be. Don't you think it's kind of bad to be having such a rant when there's bigger problems with family law and he's in a position to deal with it. But yet he doesn't even give a token comment on fathers rights.

vincent1989 · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:31

AcidHell2 said:
All though he's not talking about it, don't you think he should be. Don't you think it's kind of bad to be having such a rant when there's bigger problems with family law and he's in a position to deal with it. But yet he doesn't even give a token comment on fathers rights.

he's a human being, his dad died last year, he's lost a son 2 years ago, he made a comment on BAD dads, not good ones, or ones that aren't allowed to be good or bad. Quite plainly and obviously, and in a careful way he attacks those that can't be bothered.

GreatAuk · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:36

Dickyb0b said:
I would make a law up that if they leave there family that when they sign on or get a job , they would get a money reduction,

I thought the maintenance system already did this?:
http://www.csa.gov.uk/en/setup/how-maintenance-calculated.asp
But I don't really know much about it.

Orcish-Horde · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:49

vincent1989 said:
whoosh. it's insulting to all those so called 'fathers' who couldn't be bothered and so it should be!

They are a minority, most fathers are pushed out and once they have been painted black by the mother of their children and spat out by the court system they just give up. There is nothing more they can do, yes there is those that should be keep from their children. They same applies to some mothers, the insult is that he has chosen to single out fathers.

vincent1989 said:
and you have my complete sympathy, I think it's disgraceful the women are almost given complete control when it comes to child custody too, but that is not what Cameron is talking about.

I have the custody of my children, but Cameron singling out just fathers is insulting. All talk about single mums, no talk about single dads. In a way he is reflecting the attitude of the court system which is weighted agians't fathers.

MrMoonX · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:56

Orcish-Horde said:
Cameron opening his mouth without thinking things over shocker. Or maybe he has given it a lot of thought and is planning a cut or charge. CSA set up charge coming in? Interesting that he singled out fathers and never mentioned absent mothers or parents that prevent contect. Never mind the family court's placing fathers as second class parents.

this tbh, men are second class when it comes to family court, even when they havent done anything wrong and a marriage breaks down cos the wife is a ****

vincent1989 · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:57

Orcish-Horde said:
They are a minority, most fathers are pushed out and once they have been painted black by the mother of their children and spat out by the court system they just give up. There is nothing more they can do, yes there is those that should be keep from their children. They same applies to some mothers, the insult is that he has chosen to single out fathers.

I don't know where you are from or your social circles or age group but many of the fathers that don't see or support their kids that I know of chose not to because they don't want to.

Orcish-Horde said:
I have the custody of my children, but Cameron singling out just fathers is insulting. All talk about single mums, no talk about single dads. In a way he is reflecting the attitude of the court system which is weighted agians't fathers.

and yet if it'd been the other way round would you have complained that it was all talk about poor mothers who have to bring up their children alone, in many cases because of the weighted system, because so called fathers can do a runner and often times get away with it?

Gackt · 19 Jun 2011 at 19:31

vincent1989 said:
he's a human being, his dad died last year, he's lost a son 2 years ago, he made a comment on BAD dads, not good ones, or ones that aren't allowed to be good or bad. Quite plainly and obviously, and in a careful way he attacks those that can't be bothered.

His personal circumstances are irrelevant. He's the leader of our country, and while of course it is good to show a degree of humanity, he shouldn't be showing to letting his personal emotions take charge over his leading of the country.

What about mothers who get pregnant and then dump their kid at an adoption agency, or have abortions despite a father's protestation? Or without it even? Are we to label them as bad as drunk drivers?

There are deeper issues to people leaving families than simply running away. And to label them as bad as drunk drivers is a wholly moronic thing to say.

Meridian · 19 Jun 2011 at 19:40

Tefal said:
what if it's because the woman refuses to let them near the kids?

There's a vast gulf between help bringing up the kids, and wanting to pop round now and again to give the kids presents. But many absent fathers can't tell the difference. Taking kid to zoo = fine, taking projectile vomiting kid to doctors with other bored kind on tow = definitely not. However, yes, every case is different, and yes there are cases where the father has been turfed out because of something the mother has done. These tend to be the exception rather than the rule though.

M

vincent1989 · 19 Jun 2011 at 19:46

Gackt said:
His personal circumstances are irrelevant. He's the leader of our country, and while of course it is good to show a degree of humanity, he shouldn't be showing to letting his personal emotions take charge over his leading of the country.

What about mothers who get pregnant and then dump their kid at an adoption agency, or have abortions despite a father's protestation? Or without it even? Are we to label them as bad as drunk drivers?

There are deeper issues to people leaving families than simply running away. And to label them as bad as drunk drivers is a wholly moronic thing to say.

his personal circumstances are very relevant, I take some comfort in knowing my leader is human and not robotic. His personal emotions have not taken over his judgement though, he makes a very valid point that kids should have two parents, at this (rather fitting) time though he chooses to lambaste the poor excuses for fathers, I certainly did not see it as an affront to good fathers, the only way you could take that to heart if you were a good father is if, deep down, you knew you weren't.

Gackt · 19 Jun 2011 at 20:18

vincent1989 said:
I certainly did not see it as an affront to good fathers

Nor did I. I was simply pointing out that there is very little justice in the absolutes. It isn't a simple issue, that can be fixed by advocating severe shame and social stigma. Shaming people who do it won't stop the problem, it won't make it go away, history has proven that time and time again. You must deal with the root issues of why there are men who feel the need to abandon their families, same as why women feel the need to abandon their families. Then you must take into account the complexity of the situations and the people involved, where fathers are indeed pushed out by mothers, or by other family, where illness is concerned, or plain immaturity and fear. Teenage fathers who make a mistake, who are too emotionally unprepared for the burden of parenthood and can only see the solution in flight - shaming them doesn't solve their problems, it doesn't bring the family back together, it just heaps on additional problems.

Cameron's statement is at fault. If he said that it is important to tackle the issues at hand, rather than making an overstated appeal to emotion, then he would have come across less specious.

Dabbles · 19 Jun 2011 at 20:28

Valentino said:
If you leave your family you already do get money taken from you to go to the mother.

Fixed for you.

Tefal · 19 Jun 2011 at 20:53

Sampsy said:
True, I suppose I took absent dads as dads that don't fulfill their responsibility by choice.

Moses said:
Then I think any sane person would say the woman's in the wrong (unless the guy's Peter Sutcliffe).

Hikari Kisugi said:
Then they are not absent.
He is quite clear in what he said, this isn't about sides.
This is about the chaps who breed and flee.

I'd like to point out I was talking about "dickbobs" new law.

weescott · 19 Jun 2011 at 21:44

The law changed for children born in 2006 that the mother and father have equal rights to bringing up the child/children should they separate. In this respect then runaway dads should be stigmatised, but differentiating between circumstances and dates is not going to happen. The PM is a fool for his comments on what is a very difficult day for a lot of absent fathers.