A gang with balaclava's on trying to break into your house isn't a credible threat to your family?
Suspected burglar stabbed to death by homeowner
- Thread starter Robbo
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A gang with balaclava's on trying to break into your house isn't a credible threat to your family?
You're back into pointless speculation to back up justification of murder. If these turn out to be a bunch of hardened criminals who have used violence in the past to subdue families, I would be all for going to town on them. If it is a bunch of kids who are up to no good, have seen one too many gangster films and would have fled ****ing themselves if they heard so much as the wind blow, then I wouldn't be behind killing them as being a reasonable course of action. But the whole point of this, is we don't know who they are, what they've done or what actually happened outside of a vague headline and vague soundbites, so why call it either way until we do?
Soldato
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Exactly. But chasing them 100 yards down the street and giving a sustained beating with a cricket bat or knifing them repeatedly would be overstepping the line in my eyes.
I can sort of see where he is coming from? its situation dependant
If they come in to rob stuff, let them? insurance will cover it.
If they came to rape pillage and plunder, its a different story.
Although i guess its hard to guess their intentions ...
*worms everywhere*
Totally depends on the circumstance and amount of violence used!
This is a bit like the home-owner from London ?? That got done for murder against a burglar a good few years ago now, he didn't have a leg to stand on considering he went BACK into his property and stabbed the intruder like 30 times or something stupid.
REASONABLE force is the key here, had the home-owner been cornered and stabbed the intruder once/twice then I challenge you to find ANY court in the U.K that would convict him of murder.
The LAW on this is perfectly fine in the U.K, just because someone is in your house it DOES NOT give you the right to commit murder!! And yes I have been burgled before
This is a bit like the home-owner from London ?? That got done for murder against a burglar a good few years ago now, he didn't have a leg to stand on considering he went BACK into his property and stabbed the intruder like 30 times or something stupid.
REASONABLE force is the key here, had the home-owner been cornered and stabbed the intruder once/twice then I challenge you to find ANY court in the U.K that would convict him of murder.
The LAW on this is perfectly fine in the U.K, just because someone is in your house it DOES NOT give you the right to commit murder!! And yes I have been burgled before
We aren't talking about the individual homeowner making the call on whether or not to go Dexter style on someone they've found with their DVD player. That is their call in the moment and whether they kill some harmless kid or are killed by some mental drug addict, they will face the consequences of actions they did/didn't take. Nobody is pretending for a second any of it is fair.
What we are getting at however is the people who are reacting so passionately to something they know almost nothing about other than something happened.
IMHO - Entering ones property without permission or forcefully doing so should forgo your human rights, as you have taken mine by making my house feel unsafe.
It may be the wrong attitude and there may be loopholes but its how I feel.
Why should I have to pay (replacing items, increase insurance etc) for you to just break in and take what you want.
I am not a keyboard warrior but I would do anything to protect my family, and would grab what ever was to hand to stop them coming any where near us.
If they are trying my back door or testing windows why the hell should I let them get any further. Perhaps I wouldnt/couldnt go as far as murder but I would be pointing the sharpest/biggest/hardest thing in my house at them and let them know I intend to use them if they dont get the hell away from me, my wife and my son. Doing anything else you may as well help them load up the van.
It may be the wrong attitude and there may be loopholes but its how I feel.
Why should I have to pay (replacing items, increase insurance etc) for you to just break in and take what you want.
I am not a keyboard warrior but I would do anything to protect my family, and would grab what ever was to hand to stop them coming any where near us.
If they are trying my back door or testing windows why the hell should I let them get any further. Perhaps I wouldnt/couldnt go as far as murder but I would be pointing the sharpest/biggest/hardest thing in my house at them and let them know I intend to use them if they dont get the hell away from me, my wife and my son. Doing anything else you may as well help them load up the van.
No, you get to a safe place ie you get the **** out of there!
UNLESS you geniuenly fear for your life or that of loved ones then fighting/stricking out IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. That is unless your some sort of Neanderthal that seems to think that your property is worth more than human life
Soldato
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"If only" can be an horrific thing in these kind of situations, and something that the law doesn't entirely seem to understand.
It appears that the recommended course of action upon discovering a gang of masked individuals robbing your home is to let them at it and hope for the best.
Except, when you miss the opportunity to take action and inform them that you'll be compliant until they leave peacefully you could just as easily find yourself with a raped and traumatised wife/girlfriend/daughter and a knife wound to the stomach in return for your decency.
You have literally seconds to make that decision.
In this case, four guys in balaclavas... my gut would say have at them and one less burglar in the world certainly isn't a bad thing. I'll wait for more news on it, though, as there may be further backstory to this that hasn't been made public.
If it's another Tyler Juett style situation, then with any luck they'll get off with a well deserved pat on the back and move out of the area before the repercussions begin.
It appears that the recommended course of action upon discovering a gang of masked individuals robbing your home is to let them at it and hope for the best.
Except, when you miss the opportunity to take action and inform them that you'll be compliant until they leave peacefully you could just as easily find yourself with a raped and traumatised wife/girlfriend/daughter and a knife wound to the stomach in return for your decency.
You have literally seconds to make that decision.
In this case, four guys in balaclavas... my gut would say have at them and one less burglar in the world certainly isn't a bad thing. I'll wait for more news on it, though, as there may be further backstory to this that hasn't been made public.
If it's another Tyler Juett style situation, then with any luck they'll get off with a well deserved pat on the back and move out of the area before the repercussions begin.
All the arguments about whether he should have done it or not, if he over did it, etc.
Surely, logically it should all come down to one thing.
Would the situation have occured if the armed gang hadn't been trying to break into the house?
My opinion is that the answer to that question pretty much defines who should be held responsible - I'm sure the householder didn't wake up that morning and decide "you know, I think I fancy stabbing someone tonight", and given the choice would rather not have been forced into this situation and to take matters into his own hands. Conversely, the thief who got stabbed clearly made a conscious decision to perform his actions, and him and his gang should have considered the potential consequences.
Either way, the householder (and his/her family) would have to deal with the trauma inflicted on them, either the insecurity/fear/paranoia from having their personal space invaded, belongings taken, and generally made to feel powerless and violated, or in this case, the guilt of having taken a life (even though it was a worthless one), and having to deal with the aftermath. Can anyone here truthfully say they would choose to go through this?
Surely, logically it should all come down to one thing.
Would the situation have occured if the armed gang hadn't been trying to break into the house?
My opinion is that the answer to that question pretty much defines who should be held responsible - I'm sure the householder didn't wake up that morning and decide "you know, I think I fancy stabbing someone tonight", and given the choice would rather not have been forced into this situation and to take matters into his own hands. Conversely, the thief who got stabbed clearly made a conscious decision to perform his actions, and him and his gang should have considered the potential consequences.
Either way, the householder (and his/her family) would have to deal with the trauma inflicted on them, either the insecurity/fear/paranoia from having their personal space invaded, belongings taken, and generally made to feel powerless and violated, or in this case, the guilt of having taken a life (even though it was a worthless one), and having to deal with the aftermath. Can anyone here truthfully say they would choose to go through this?
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Sadly I don't agree that is the case in this country. The police seem to only care about arresting as many people as possible, the CPS only seem to care about getting successful prosecutions and the courts only seem to care if your crime threatens the establishment.
But its becoming almost common knowledge that that's the case? Meaning if you know you will get in trouble for killing someone in self defence don't stab someone multiple times, protect yourself within reason.
I mean I am not saying i agree with it, but killing someone is still killing someone. Doing it in self defence is all scenario driven.
Hence the "with reasonable force" statement, which is so often used in trails like this.
And unfortunately, because of the world we live in, there will never be a perfect law to cover all the scenarios fairly.
Hence evidences, trials, etc etc.
People can Lie and use the laws to their personal gain and as a result of this, the people that really are innocent suffer as a result.
I'm guessing that the reason these people have been arrested is possibly because they had ample opportunity to escape the situation and instead CHOOSE to stay and fight (this can very often be easily and quickly determined with evidence at the crime-scene) , in which case I have NO sympathy for them and I hope they get punished for the crime they have committed.
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Even if it comes down to a case of only one of you coming out of it alive? There are scenarios where I think that it's acceptable to kill someone.
In this case, more information is needed. If it turns out that he stabbed the guy repeatedly whilst he was retreating, then he is no better than them and should serve his punishment, much like the US store owner who shot a burglar, chased his friend away, then came back to unload a second gun in to him. If, on the other hand, he grabbed the first object with which he could defend himself and stabbed him once with the intention of protecting his family, then I don't see a problem with it.
Why are people talking like the householder has been sent down for murder, what has happened is the 3 people in the house have been arrested pending investigation into a crime which the police are treating as murder. It doesn't say any of them have been charged yet, so maybe there is some confusion as to who did it.
The investigation may go no further or it may turn out that the intruder was murdered, an investigation taking place doesn't imply one or the other, they can't just write it off on the scene as having been completely innocent when somebody has been stabbed to death.
The investigation may go no further or it may turn out that the intruder was murdered, an investigation taking place doesn't imply one or the other, they can't just write it off on the scene as having been completely innocent when somebody has been stabbed to death.
No you will not.
Let's all be grateful that things aren't as they seem then.