Suspected burglar stabbed to death by homeowner

Burnsy2023 said:
If the burglar was unarmed then I find it very hard to justify stabbing him to death. But that said, I don't know the details to know if it was reasonable.
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Were they just breaking in or were they in and threatening the family with weapons?

If you walked down and saw a couple of kids in your house with your television, my first reaction wouldn't be to stab them, it would be more of W T F and panic / scared. I'm a big guy so I'd probably throw a punch and make a lot of noise.

If I walked in, was cornered and was in fear of my life, I'd react (I'm honestly not sure) but probably in self defence as it's kind of human nature and if I happened to kill them in the ensuing fight then so be it.

There is a reason these kinds of things are legal minefields, they're not open and close cases.

It's sad to see anyone lose their life (regardless of what they did in life and which paths they took as Ghandi put, "an eye for an eye will make the entire world blind")

I also, doubt that the majority of these crimes occur because "that's what people do", different situations tend to force people to do bizarre things.

/end rant, that wasn't aimed at anyone.
 
There doesn't seem to be much reason NOT to burgle these days, might as well take it up for a good bit of money on the side :D

Seriously though, I believe people should take the responsibility to train and be equipped to deal with such situations effectively. This would deter a lot of these scum bags from daring to break in too. Subduing the intruder and calling the police should be the first option. Only if the intruder is armed and poses a threat to someone's life should fatal force be used.
 
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Some scumbag broke into my house, I stabbed of one them to death while defending my family, I got done for it then so be it, I would do it again tbh.

Scum enter peoples house at the own risk, if you die then unlucky.
 
Borrish said:
What you mean the evidence of someone having been killed inside his house? At the moment the ONLY thing that the homeowner has in his defence is his own word. To get the full story the police have to launch an investigation which involves questioning him.

You need to get this idea out of your head that by arresting him and investigating what happened they're actually accusing him of murder. They haven't done any such thing as he hasn't been charged of anything.
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So if the police found a teenager hanging in his bedroom, they should arrest the parents to conduct an investigation? Of course not, it looks like suicide so it's treated as suicide. If it looks like a home owner has used reasonable force to defend himself, why does it have to be treated as murder?
 
scorza said:
I don't dispute that it needs to be investigated, I assume that all deaths are investigated to some degree or other?

Why can't the police determine if the force used was reasonable? If they can't how can we, the public be expected to determine what force is reasonable in a given situation? Maybe I'm old fashioned in thinking that being arrested is a bad thing, it means being treated like a criminal. How can it be right for the police to treat someone like a criminal before they're even sure that a crime has even been committed?
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All deaths are investigated but the majority are natural or sudden deaths as they are called and are resolved with no arrest or suspicion of foul play.

Police are there to investigate and present evidence to a prosecutor or the judiciary who will make a decision.

Such a death will involve a Home Office pathologist who is qualified to state how injuries are caused, force used and to corroborate or dispute the assailants version of what happened.

CSIs can determine things such as blood spatter etc although Meridian may help out there as this field isn't my bag.

Police are not trained in such things and to do this would be logistically and financially impossible.
 
scorza said:
So if the police found a teenager hanging in his bedroom, they should arrest the parents to conduct an investigation? Of course not, it looks like suicide so it's treated as suicide. If it looks like a home owner has used reasonable force to defend himself, why does it have to be treated as murder?
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because it doesn't look like that, it's what the guy has said. The only evidence (that we are aware of) is a stabbed body, and an admission by this guy that he stabbed him.

To treat it (in the first instance) as anything less than murder would be stupid, that's treating it as murder, it is not casting any aspersions against the guy, it's saying that if once statements and evidence are taken it's deemed likely to be murder then he is a suspect.
 
Two released without charge, the man who stabbed him is still being questioned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13900285
Stabbed Salford burglar John Bennell was on police bail

Police are trying to trace three people who were with Mr Bennell

A burglar stabbed to death after an attempted break-in at a house in Salford, was on police bail for another suspected burglary, it has emerged.

John Leonard Bennell, 27, from Hyde, had been arrested by police in Tamworth, Staffs, earlier this month.

Householder Peter Flanagan, 57, who was arrested on suspicion of Mr Bennell's attempted murder remains in custody.

Mr Flanagan's 27-year-old son and his son's 21-year-old girlfriend have been released without charge.

Four masked men attempted to get into a house in Ethel Avenue before midnight on Wednesday.

Mr Bennell is believed to have been carried away by the other intruders as they fled, before being left in a road.

Police said Mr Bennell was found on Hospital Road in Pendlebury and died a short time later.

The three people with him at the time of the incident have yet to be traced, police said.

Ch Supt Kevin Mulligan, of Greater Manchester Police, has urged anyone who knows of their whereabouts, to contact detectives.
 
Can someone clarify some points regarding this please?

I presume Peter Flanagan didn't wake up and think I'm going to murder someone today. He was confronted by masked men in his home and used force and a weapon to make them flee. This arguably got out of hand and John Bennell was stabbed? Surely this is manslaughter at worst?

Why was it attempted murder? If it was murder, surely it was murder as he died as a result of the wounds inflicted on him by Peter Flanagan?
 
He hasn't been charged with anything at the moment.
It's also clear if they actually entered the house.
But attempted murder seems an odd phrase to use.
 
Brian8bit said:
This will probably end up in another Tony Martin type fiasco. How much force is considered reasonable force in the protection of your home et cetera.
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In our wonderful legal system, that's a question that neither the police or the CPS or a judge or a politician are qualified to answer. So instead we get twelve random people off the streets and let them decide. :rolleyes:
 
Brian8bit said:
This will probably end up in another Tony Martin type fiasco. How much force is considered reasonable force in the protection of your home et cetera.
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Wouldn't surprise me. From the very limited info we have. It doesn't seem like they broke in and he was on the phone to the police. So why not leave the door shut and wait.
*reserving right to change statement as and when info is release.

Or due to the body being moved by assailants it's made the police investigation harder.
 
scorza said:
In our wonderful legal system, that's a question that neither the police or the CPS or a judge or a politician are qualified to answer. So instead we get twelve random people off the streets and let them decide. :rolleyes:
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What's a better system?

Do you want to be judged by a judge, who has had been exposure to criminals and is likely to be biased. Or do you want to be-judged on what's reasonable by 12 normal people. That's if it even goes to court.

Its like democracy, it's the lesser of two evils.
 
Brian8bit said:
This will probably end up in another Tony Martin type fiasco. How much force is considered reasonable force in the protection of your home et cetera.
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I think that the amount of reasonable force depends on the individual, for example if someone offered violence toward a member of family the type of force needed to protect would depend on who confronted h the assailant. If It was me for example, who is a 6'2" 18st ex soldier, I could in all likelihood overpower or incapacitate someone without undue force or the need of a weapon. However if it was my wife, 5'1" 7 stone with no training in self defence (except what I try to show her) then stabbing or bludgeoning the blighter would seem a reasonable thing to do if she was in danger of being attacked.

Also I would consider this, if someone entered my home and my wife and/or my child were in danger then I would be more inclined to put the gentleman down permanently than if it were only me at risk.
 
robgmun said:
While i agree with you, and playing devils advocate here, what happens if stabbing a burglar becomes ok by law. What to stop someone luring someone into their house, stabbing them and then claming they were trying to break in?
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don't you think the police would would have enough brains to work this one out?
 
AcidHell2 said:
Do you want to be judged by a judge, who has had been exposure to criminals and is likely to be biased. Or do you want to be-judged on what's reasonable by 12 normal people. That's if it even goes to court.
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Trouble is a Judge can still direct a jury on what choice of sentence to give, manslaughter or murder they might not be given an option of innocent.
 
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