Student protester jailed

Nitefly · 15 Jul 2011 at 19:59

Dolph said:
Well, Violent disorder is a specific crime that can only occur during certain situations, which tend to occur during public disorder. In terms of violent disorder, he actually got a pretty lenient sentence.

If you are talking about 'riot' then yes, but it's extremely rare that the full force of that sentence is ever dished out (12 years IIRC... :eek:

).

Tefal · 15 Jul 2011 at 19:59

sunama said:
S1: I walk in to a shopping centre and with a semi automatic hand gun, unload 10 shots, at random. Nobody gets hit. I end up getting 10 years in prison (lets say).

So you're saying he should have gotten 10 years?

steve-h · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:00

Pinkribbonscars said:
Throw a fire extinguisher into a crowd of people and 9 times out of 10 someone is going to die, it was incredibibly lucky someone didn't. If he doesn't have the mental capacity to realise that (though I'm sure he did) then he should be locked up purely dor the public's safety.

To be fair he threw it between two crowds, not into a crowd.

Glaucus · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:00

Tefal said:
whats the average sentence for violent disorder (guessing you can fid that thing out a bit easier than us considering you're training/are a lawyer)

Not exactly what you asked but

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/violent_disorder/

Pretty long list of aggravating Factors for him.

On top of that, the sentence isn't harsh. Compare it to Bristol riots of stone throwing and at least one has been giving three years.

Dolph · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:01

Nitefly said:
In that sense yes, you are completely right.

But he didn't beat anyone up - he didn't actually harm anyone (fire extinguisher man).

What about a man that gets drunk and does something destructive in public to a fire extinguisher which is dangerous, but nobody is harmed - a year and a half for that? Obviously not a perfect example, but I'm sure you get the jist.

A key part of the violent disorder offence is that it is creates a situation of fear, single acts tend not to do this, but being violent in groups does.

Given how much damage the violent minority did to the cause of the students, I'm surprised at how much support they still get...

Pinkribbonscars · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:01

steve-h said:
To be fair he threw it between two crowds, not into a crowd.

Was that a calculated decision or luck? I don't know which would be worse.

Pinkribbonscars · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:02

Dolph said:
Given how much damage the violent minority did to the cause of the students, I'm surprised at how much support they still get...

Indeed. Purely from my experience, those riots changed people's opinion quite markedly.

Dolph · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:03

Nitefly said:
If you are talking about 'riot' then yes, but it's extremely rare that the full force of that sentence is ever dished out (12 years IIRC... ).

Well, that's because the Police really don't like declaring a riot because it makes them liable for the compensation for damages.

Even for normal violent disorder, the max sentence is 5 years.

Robbo · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:04

AcidHell2 said:
Throwing an extinguisher of a roof, into a crowded place. Is not the same as any half arsed comparison anyone has said.
There are different crimes, it's also down to what can be proved. With regards to intent, or accidental.

He attempted to murder several innocent people. Grade A scumbag.

steve-h · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:05

Pinkribbonscars said:
Was that a calculated decision or luck? I don't know which would be worse.

There's a discussion on the last page from ages ago, I thought it was 100% intentional. Why else bother looking over the edge and gathering enough momentum via le swing?

He's a bit of a retard for doing in the first place, but not enough to miss the mass of police below him.

Robbo said:
He attempted to murder several innocent people. Grade A scumbag.

Nitefly · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:06

Dolph said:
A key part of the violent disorder offence is that it is creates a situation of fear, single acts tend not to do this, but being violent in groups does.

Given how much damage the violent minority did to the cause of the students, I'm surprised at how much support they still get...

I don't support or condone the use of violence or any of the aggressive behaviour that resulted from the protests. It should all be condemned.

He should face a sanction, no doubts about that and I'm sure nobody will argue otherwise. A custodial sentence is perhaps suitable, but 2 years and 8 months....!!

I'm no judge, but even an ex-high court judge that taught me during my studies remarked it was a very harsh sentence, implying that 6 months and a community order would have been more apt, I can't help but agree.

Glaucus · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:08

So how about the Bristol rioter sent down for three years? Also to harsh.

Nitefly · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:09

Tefal said:
whats the average sentence for violent disorder (guessing you can fid that thing out a bit easier than us considering you're training/are a lawyer)

I had a quick browse but I couldn't find the figures you are looking for - I would hunt but I'm having a gin and tonic and I'm about to go out

Nitefly · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:10

AcidHell2 said:
So how about the Bristol rioter sent down for three years? Also to harsh.

Which one, sorry?

Tefal · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:12

Nitefly said:
I had a quick browse but I couldn't find the figures you are looking for - I would hunt but I'm having a gin and tonic and I'm about to go out

from the link acid posted it seems it's usually over a year.

Glaucus · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:15

Nitefly said:
Which one, sorry?

Not the one I'm thinking of, but another

A 32-year-old man has been jailed for two years for his part in the Stokes Croft violence in April. Steven Farthing, of Jamaica Street, Bristol was handed the sentence yesterday at Bristol Crown Court.
Farthing was charged with violent disorder, burglary and possessing cannabis which was found on him after he was arrested.
Detective Chief Inspector Will White, who led the investigation, said: “This result demonstrates the seriousness of the incidents during the two disorders. Our investigation continues and we are determined to bring every offender to justice.
“I would like to thank the public for their continued support and abhorrence of the violent acts committed in Stokes Croft.”

9 have been charged, one has been sent down for three years.

RDM · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:17

Nitefly said:
I don't support or condone the use of violence or any of the aggressive behaviour that resulted from the protests. It should all be condemned.

He should face a sanction, no doubts about that and I'm sure nobody will argue otherwise. A custodial sentence is perhaps suitable, but 2 years and 8 months....!!

I'm no judge, but even an ex-high court judge that taught me during my studies remarked it was a very harsh sentence, implying that 6 months and a community order would have been more apt, I can't help but agree.

His problem was that he fell foul of several of the aggravating circumstances (targeted police, part of a group, used a weapon, caused damage). So his sentence is going to be higher due to that. If you can get 12 months for throwing bottles at the police and 3 years for throwing stones then 32 months for a fire extinguisher doesn't look so bad.

Nitefly · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:17

AcidHell2 said:
Not the one I'm thinking of, but another

9 have been charged, one has been sent down for three years.

Without further specifics, it's too hard to comment.

Indeed, even with the fire extinguisher case, I'm taking it at face value upon what I know. I wasn't there in court, of course!

Nitefly · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:19

RDM said:
His problem was that he fell foul of several of the aggravating circumstances (targeted police, part of a group, used a weapon, caused damage). So his sentence is going to be higher due to that. If you can get 12 months for throwing bottles at the police and 3 years for throwing stones then 32 months for a fire extinguisher doesn't look so bad.

I am aware of this, but it tends to be the extent of those factors rather them having any specific bonus multiplier going on. They are merely factors for the judge / magistrates to use when exercising their discretion, but yes I appreciate your point.

Glaucus · 15 Jul 2011 at 20:20

Thing is violent disorder is seen as very series and heavily punished. Compared to what other people have been charged. There is nothing over the top. No complaints about other people recieving such sentences. But cpbecuase it's preciebed as a student who didn't know what they where doing, it's suddenly harsh.
As the other link I showed sentences are usually 1-3years.