Riots in Tottenham, London! (NO RACIST COMMENTS)

[dirtydog]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...im-Haroon-Jahans-father-Tariq-calls-calm.html

I think it was widely reported a couple of days ago but they are no "playing it down" to avoid any "race problems".

I'm sorry if it's not palatable to some but it appears they guy was black!

HEADRAT

I predict there are gonna be rather a lot of 'race problems' to come... there is no love lost between the black and Asian 'communities'.

 

[magick]

I'd heard the guy in the car was black.

Just been googling and that appears so.

Amid the rising tensions caused by the killing of Haroon and his two friends by a car driven by a black man, Mr Stewart was not alone last night in fearing the tragedy could spark further violence in the area.

Latent tensions between the two communities were brought into sharp focus again in 2005 in another nearby area, Lozells, where a man was stabbed to death during rioting triggered by a rumour, never substantiated, that a 14-year-old black girl had been caught shoplifting by a Pakistani shopkeeper and subsequently gang-raped

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ns-father-Tariq-calls-calm.html#ixzz1Uj2D9Yux

 

[dirtydog]

The only model which seems to be working at the moment is the Chinese, do we really want to go down that route?

The least worst system in the world is the one we have right here.

 

[dirtydog]

Ahahahahhaha. You are the pot, what colour is the kettle?

Sorry?

 

[Dj_Jestar]

I support negative income tax remember

Which contradicts your point from before. If someone is not providing a valuable skill, they shouldn't get money.

But with negative income they will get money doing that skill of little or no value.

 

[gothic_hobbit]

We can learn a lot from how Bee and Ant colonies work together as a whole and don't spend their lives trying to compete with or **** each other over.

Unfortunately, our society is more based on Bees VS Wasps !

 

[Dr Who]

You cannot have a society without an economy, if you don't base it on money, there still has to be value to things.

Rubbish, if that was the case every single item would change value to the minute as world currency markets change.

There is only debt and perceived value, you spend £500 on a flatscreen you are paying for something worth maybe £100 in components the rest is service, shipping, storage blah blah, you never pay what something is worth, you pay what is charged with paper that has no inherent value itself (if it did it wouldn't vary in what it could buy).

 

[Dolph]

Which contradicts your point from before. If someone is not providing a valuable skill, they shouldn't get money.

No, it doesn't. The money they receive for their job should depend on the value of the skills they bring, not some dictated amount.

But with negative income they will get money doing that skill of little or no value.

No, with negative income tax everyone gets a baseline amount for being a citizen

 

[Dolph]

Rubbish, if that was the case every single item would change value to the minute as world currency markets change.

There is only debt and perceived value, you spend £500 on a flatscreen you are paying for something worth maybe £100 in components the rest is service, shipping, storage blah blah, you never pay what something is worth, you pay what is charged with paper that has no inherent value itself (if it did it wouldn't vary in what it could buy).

Labour has value, materials have value, manufactured goods have an intrinsic value.

Even if you eliminate money, unless you have an infinite supply of goods and services, they still have value, and some are still more valuable than others.

 

[Chasser]

at 18 a person can still be moulded to become a "professional" as you call it



the people that join the army are not specialised when they join, they are specialised after they get training.

funding and personnel cuts is another matter, which i understand would be the problem. but how much is it costing to keep these people with government handouts now ?

Agreed, but they join a branch/trade of their choice (vacancies permitting) intending to make a full career of it. An influx of 18 year olds, many disagreeing with the concept and unwilling to cooperate would be just too much to handle (from both the financial angle and the manpower required for the extra training). Even the ones who do knuckle down will get pushed into unattractive trades because the chances are that at the point their National Service ends they will walk. The whole National Service issue is a non-starter.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

No, it doesn't. The money they receive for their job should depend on the value of the skills they bring, not some dictated amount.



No, with negative income tax everyone gets a baseline amount for being a citizen

Ergo.. money. AKA A minimum wage, only this time it's from the Government coffers and not the employers - but then we'd need to pay the extra taxes to allow the govt. to spend this cash.

 

[Dr Who]

Without control of your finances, you can never have freedom.

I'd rather have freedom to fail than no freedom at all.

That is because you are still brainwashed to think finance is freedom, it isn't it is slavery.

If you were free from the burden of money and could have anything you needed to live your life in comfort as well as the next man, what would you do? Would you go to work for 5 hours a day doing what you loved and spend the rest of your day doing charity work to improve the environent and save species that are dying or would you spend all your working day doing a job? Both have equal value in society. Why is a footballer paid more than a doctor treating the sick?

People who value money know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

[Jokester]

That is because you are still brainwashed to think finance is freedom, it isn't it is slavery.

If you were free from the burden of money and could have anything you needed to live your life in comfort as well as the next man, what would you do? Would you go to work for 5 hours a day doing what you loved and spend the rest of your day doing charity work to improve the environent and save species that are dying or would you spend all your working day doing a job? Both have equal value in society. Why is a footballer paid more than a doctor treating the sick?

People who value money know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Who would provide for you when everyone decides that there is no value in working?

 

[Dr Who]

Labour has value, materials have value, manufactured goods have an intrinsic value.

Even if you eliminate money, unless you have an infinite supply of goods and services, they still have value, and some are still more valuable than others.

Seriously, I am not gonna explain it all, you need to watch the movie for 3 hours and then come back and tell me it cannot work, because the system you love right now has failed, both financially and socially. Socialism/Communism and Capitalism have all failed, the only issue we have right now is the world is trying to revive an economy that is clinically dead.

 

[Dolph]

That is because you are still brainwashed to think finance is freedom, it isn't it is slavery.

If you were free from the burden of money and could have anything you needed to live your life in comfort as well as the next man, what would you do? Would you go to work for 5 hours a day doing what you loved and spend the rest of your day doing charity work to improve the environent and save species that are dying or would you spend all your working day doing a job? Both have equal value in society. Why is a footballer paid more than a doctor treating the sick?

People who value money know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

So who dictates what people do when the inevitable happens and there are gaps in your perfect society?

What happens when there are not enough of something to go around? Does no-one get it at all?

 

[Jokester]

Ergo.. money. AKA A minimum wage, only this time it's from the Government coffers and not the employers - but then we'd need to pay the extra taxes to allow the govt. to spend this cash.

But we're already paying this money for them not to work...

 

[Dolph]

Seriously, I am not gonna explain it all, you need to watch the movie for 3 hours and then come back and tell me it cannot work, because the system you love right now has failed, both financially and socially. Socialism/Communism and Capitalism have all failed, the only issue we have right now is the world is trying to revive an economy that is clinically dead.

I have watched the movie in the past, it's a load of crap, it can't work, and every country that has tried it has become an authoritarian hellhole.

What you describe is communism.

 

[Dr Who]

Who would provide for you when everyone decides that there is no value in working?

Good question as we are well on the way to that now.... I know the solution, it just isn't gonna happen for a while. Go watch the movie.

 

[Dolph]

Ergo.. money. AKA A minimum wage, only this time it's from the Government coffers and not the employers - but then we'd need to pay the extra taxes to allow the govt. to spend this cash.

Which spreads the costs around far more than putting it solely on employment costs, and also ensures that everyone gets the same benefit from the state.

 

[Jokester]

Good question as we are well on the way to that now.... I know the solution, it just isn't gonna happen for a while. Go watch the movie.

Sorry, if YOU can't explain why it won't fail you then don't understand what you're talking about.

Edit: I think we might have had this discussion before:- I'm a ski bum, who would service my ski lifts and operate them?