Riots in Tottenham, London! (NO RACIST COMMENTS)

[Dolph]

Oh please

Firstly, there's no such evidence; secondly, no one is suggesting that taxation alone will do the job.

You must have missed all those freedom filled managed economies of the last 60 years

Taxation won't do the job at all, what we need is to bring the bottom up, not drag the top down, unfortunately many of the tools that did that in the past, such as grammar schools, are opposed by the left.

We need a good education system, not one where everyone is told they have succeeded. We need a society which accepts responsibility for itself at both an individual and a community level, not one where everyone tries to make 'the state' responsible and demands someone else pays for it.

Above all, we need to drive equality through achievement, not through authoritarian economic policy.

 

[StriderX]

The problems seen with inequality are due to jealousy tied with a lack of morality, ethics and responsibility (often on all sides).

To have what others have should be a driver to improve your life, not a driver to forcibly take from others. Likewise a good, moral wealthy person should be looking at ensuring that their staff work for them because they want to, not because they are forced to.

Ohh definitely, but even then there are certain elements which end up ruining it all.

There will always be immorality and there will always be people who are immoral at certain places, where they can do A LOT of damage.

Plus capitalism, somewhat plays to our instincts...which is why it works so fruitfully in the end, though like instincts capitalism absolutely requires control otherwise things get out of hand and start unravelling problems. (2008 being the result).

Some people just don't have the capacity to prevail in controlling themselves, which is unfortunate...this is hardly fixable realistically for many reasons.

 

[scorza]

But again, the suggestion that you can force equality on a country through the taxation system is well proven false already...

It's important to point out that no-one seriously is suggesting "forcing equality". What we're talking about is how to achieve less inequality - no-one wants communism as far as I can see but neither do we want the current system which is greatly skewed towards a handful of people. Greater income equality can be achieved through redistributive tax policy - Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland have done it. The USA used to do it - in the '60s the top earners were paying 60% income tax, it didn't stop them striving for the moon or provide them with an excuse to leave for a seedy tax haven.

 

[Vonhelmet]

You are misinterpreting the tone of my posts, and are acting obtuse, I do not have nothing to complain about. Financial market speculators, I think it was quite clear from my first post.

What's wrong with Market speculation? Assuming transparency of information, I don't really see a problem with it.

 

[Dr Who]

What's wrong with Market speculation? Assuming transparency of information, I don't really see a problem with it.

In terms of investment it is fine, but it serves no other purpose that driving up a speculators profit at the expense of customers prices. It all seems fine in theory but someone has to pay for that speculators profit and it is us as end users. Look at what it did to the price of oil, and how speculators were not docking tankers of the stuff until they could drive the price up, a total joke.

None of this affects the rich, it puts a small strain the middle classes, but then the poorest just get poorer as a result.

 

[hola_adios]

What's wrong with Market speculation? Assuming transparency of information, I don't really see a problem with it.

As a principle nothing, it is part of the system, and we all do it, up to a point. Now, doing it on the scale to bring entire currencies down, or "play" with the price of certain commodities, like rice, wheat ... I do find it highly immoral.

The way those attacks are performed it is not playing with the same rules as the rest of us, they play with the entire deck of cards.

 

[Dolph]

It's important to point out that no-one seriously is suggesting "forcing equality". What we're talking about is how to achieve less inequality - no-one wants communism as far as I can see but neither do we want the current system which is greatly skewed towards a handful of people. Greater income equality can be achieved through redistributive tax policy - Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland have done it. The USA used to do it - in the '60s the top earners were paying 60% income tax, it didn't stop them striving for the moon or provide them with an excuse to leave for a seedy tax haven.

If you actually did you research properly, you'd realise that the Nordic countries don't actually do what you say they do. Tax rates are high across the board.

 

[zenf]

Chapter 2 seems to be about poor parenting and the ongoing effects in later life.

Exactly. Do any of us really think we'd be living the lives we do if we'd been brought up by this *****?

EDIT 2: Should've checked back sooner, thanks explicit!

 

[explicit4u]

^^ you just need to put the code at the end of the URL in the

 

[scorza]

If you actually did you research properly, you'd realise that the Nordic countries don't actually do what you say they do. Tax rates are high across the board.

But it is redistributive, people who earn proportionally more are taxed proportionally more (think it goes up to 60% in Sweden?) and the money is re-invested in top quality public services which the lowest earners benefit the most from.

 

[Dolph]

But it is redistributive, people who earn proportionally more are taxed proportionally more (think it goes up to 60% in Sweden?) and the money is re-invested in top quality public services which the lowest earners benefit the most from.

Perhaps you need to broaden your research again, the quoted tax rates usually associated with Sweden include both the employee and employer taxes (equivilent to including both parts of NI in our taxation rates), so our tax rates aren't all that different.

Further, you need to research what Sweden spends most of it's social welfare money on, here's a hint, it isn't the poorest. All 'no or low income' welfare is administrated at municipal, rather than state level. Only certain groups of people are entitled to housing assistance. The biggest expenditures are actually unemployment benefits for those who have worked, coming in at 80% of previous wage in many cases.

You'll find the other nordic countries similar. To make it crystal clear, they have benefits systems that encourage and reward people for working, not systems that punish people for working as ours does.

 

[scorza]

Remind me what's going on at the equivalent of municipal level in the UK? Oh that's right swingeing budget cuts that ensure that the sort of programmes which would make a difference - SureStart for example don't happen. Here's a good article explaining the problem: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/08/miliband-inequality-cameron

 

[Dolph]

Remind me what's going on at the equivalent of municipal level in the UK? Oh that's right swingeing budget cuts that ensure that the sort of programmes which would make a difference - SureStart for example don't happen. Here's a good article explaining the problem: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/08/miliband-inequality-cameron

Sure start's worked really well in ensuring the kids don't turn to crime, hasn't it

Still making excuses for criminals as well I see? Nothing was responsible for the behaviour of the individuals rioting apart from their decision to go out and join in.

 

[Pinkribbonscars]

It's important to point out that no-one seriously is suggesting "forcing equality".

The idea is to drive down the higher wages by aggressively taxing them.

Sounds like it to me?

 

[physichull]

Have just been talking to some of my German colleagues at work today and they were all suprised that baton rounds and water cannons weren't brought in quicker and that in Germany they would have been less hesitant.

 

[scorza]

Sounds like it to me?

Lowering income inequality is not the same as forcing equality.

 

[StriderX]

Have just been talking to some of my German colleagues at work today and they were all suprised that baton rounds and water cannons weren't brought in quicker and that in Germany they would have been less hesitant.

Well we don't have Water cannons in the UK, apart from NI, kinda takes time to move them.

But didn't matter in the end.

Plus makes us look better than those Germans (always a bright side)

 

[scorza]

Plus makes us look better than those Germans (always a bright side)

To look better than the Germans we'd need for the riots not to have occurred.

 

[cm1179]

has this gem been posted? even if it has, it deserves another one

With much of the debate on the riots centring on the political classes being out of touch with real life, Hazel Blears did them no favours yesterday.

The former Labour cabinet minister was giving an interview to Sky News when she asked: 'Why are these kids not at school?'

Blears had clearly forgotten that it is August and that schools were closed for the summer holidays.

 

[awaybreaktoday]

When's the next generation of ATI and NVIDIA cards due out, also is worth upgrading from and i7 now or should i wait for the generation after the next?