Riots in Tottenham, London! (NO RACIST COMMENTS)

Danthus · 15 Aug 2011 at 18:51

Gackt said:
You're right, enslaving coloured people actually helped them and they've wasted the opportunity that was lovingly given to them and so it's all their own fault and we're not to blame at all for their current situation. Yeah?

Or could you offer another reason, perhaps "on the mark"?

You argument completely ignores the fact that there were white people involved.

Gackt · 15 Aug 2011 at 18:51

Robbo said:
So thinking along those lines Gackt, should we all ignore/attack Germany (you know the things they've done)?

Of course not, what a silly thing to say.

I'm saying that it's very easy to blame other cultures for their problems when our own culture has had a large hand in why they are the way they are now. It's more about accepting responsibility rather than shifting blame.

kylew said:
What colour are you, or is your skin transparent?

OldCoals said:
You argument completely ignores the fact that there were white people involved.

White people being involved is irrelevant, I was talking about the culture in response to dirtydog.

hola_adios · 15 Aug 2011 at 18:52

dirtydog said:
Yes you know all about it in theory, I know about it in reality, that's the difference. You ain't even British are you?

How many generations in your Britishness can you go back?

dirtydog · 15 Aug 2011 at 18:53

Castiel said:
Yes I am British I was born here and have spent most of my life here, and grew up in a situation where I was very much involved in gangs and criminality, I was one of those people lucky enough to find someone who took the time to help focus my anger and attitude in a more productive direction.

Don't go making assumptions about people when you do not know the full history of that person.

There's someone on here who keeps ponitificating about this stuff in Britain who is Australian, I thought it was you but wasn't sure. Am I wrong then or are you British only by recent citizenship or marriage etc.

Cosimo · 15 Aug 2011 at 18:53

Tefal said:
"our" past actions?

I don't remember owning a slave.

That's because you never did. Think ancestors, it might give you a clue.

Reaper 392 · 15 Aug 2011 at 18:55

Gackt said:
A culture who for centuries before it was treated as slaves by the whites, who then pushed them into ghettos and made life as difficult as possible for them so that now they're trapped in a circle of crime and poverty.

Gackt said:
Yes, our past actions weigh heavily on the circumstances of today.

Gackt said:
You know what I meant, you're not that dense. I was speaking culturally.

The actions of the "whites", then. Better? Or our ancestors, if you want to exclude the skin colour from it.

been a while since ive seen arguments this dim on OcUK

dirtydog · 15 Aug 2011 at 18:55

Robbo said:
So thinking along those lines Gackt, should we all ignore/attack Germany (you know the things they've done)?

Quite. At what point do we just move on, nobody holds any of the current Germans responsible for what their forefathers did so why the hell should current British (white ones that is), still be responsible for the plight of blacks? Other immigrants like the Chinese or a lot of Asians don't behave like them. India used to be a British colony yet most Indians don't need excuses made for them. Only the black 'community' does. It doesn't wash.

Robbo · 15 Aug 2011 at 18:55

Gackt said:
Of course not, what a silly thing to say.

Yet it's getting at the same point that you are.

I'm glad you've seen sense

Gackt · 15 Aug 2011 at 18:57

Robbo said:
Yet it's getting at the same point that you are.

I'm glad you've seen sense

You're assuming I was saying that we should punish ourselves (descendants) for what our ancestors did. That's not it at all. But it is important to acknowledge our ancestors' role in shaping the world rather than going off on one about "how it's all the blacks fault" or "they chose to be like that" or whatever.

With specific regard to the Germany thing, no, you wouldn't attack them now for their ancestors, but it is important to acknowledge that what their ancestors did had a very large impact on the world and that the consequences of those actions are still felt today. I would hope they would use that as a way of making sure it never happens again and that they can make a positive impact on the world.

dirtydog · 15 Aug 2011 at 18:59

Still these blacks are okay it seems, they've just been given a £2m detached house to live in for free. In Hampstead.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ily-on-benefits-move-into-2-million-home.html

Castiel · 15 Aug 2011 at 19:00

dirtydog said:
There's someone on here who keeps ponitificating about this stuff in Britain who is Australian, I thought it was you but wasn't sure. Am I wrong then or are you British only by recent citizenship or marriage etc.

I am not Australian. I am British by birth and paternal parentage. My mother is from the United States. I spent several years as a child in the United States both with my Mother and in the State Care System as I did in this country as neither of my Parents were exactly fit to be Parents at the time.

I have a British birth certificate, passport and spent 18 years serving in the British Armed Forces, I have an American Passport due to the nationality of my Mother.

I am as British as you are and I have lived the kind of life that many of these people you dismiss because of their skin colour currently live, the difference between them and I, is that I was lucky enough to get constructive help and guidance when I needed it most.

the shadow · 15 Aug 2011 at 19:01

dirtydog said:
Quite. At what point do we just move on, nobody holds any of the current Germans responsible for what their forefathers did so why the hell should current British (white ones that is), still be responsible for the plight of blacks? Other immigrants like the Chinese or a lot of Asians don't behave like them. India used to be a British colony yet most Indians don't need excuses made for them. Only the black 'community' does. It doesn't wash.

Only the black "community" does
O please is the coming from a black person i think not :mad:

dirtydog · 15 Aug 2011 at 19:01

Castiel said:
I am not Australian. I am British by birth and paternal parentage. My mother is from the United States. I spent several years as a child in the United States both with my Mother and in the State Care System as I did in this country as neither of my Parents were exactly fit to be Parents at the time.

I have a British birth certificate, passport and spent 18 years serving in the British Armed Forces, I have an American Passport due to the nationality of my Mother.

I am as British as you are and I have lived the kind of life that many of these people you dismiss because of their skin colour currently live, the difference between them and I, is that I was lucky enough to get constructive help and guidance when I needed it most.

Okay

Who am I confusing you with then, I wonder... (rhetorical)

(btw there was no need for all that personal info, I would have taken your word for it if you'd just said no

)

hola_adios · 15 Aug 2011 at 19:04

dirtydog said:
? no

So, those who disagree with you, how do your portrait them mentally?

Castiel · 15 Aug 2011 at 19:06

dirtydog said:
Okay

Who am I confusing you with then, I wonder... (rhetorical)

I do not know, probably Meridian, I think he is from New Zealand, although I fail to see what that has to do with anything as I suspect his opinion is as valid as anyone else's, given the issues in New Zealand in regard to Racism and Immigration.

dirtydog said:
(btw there was no need for all that personal info, I would have taken your word for it if you'd just said no )

Obviously you didn't, otherwise my first answer that I was British would have sufficed.

Edrof · 15 Aug 2011 at 19:07

Castiel said:
I am not Australian. I am British by birth and paternal parentage. My mother is from the United States. I spent several years as a child in the United States both with my Mother and in the State Care System as I did in this country as neither of my Parents were exactly fit to be Parents at the time.

I have a British birth certificate, passport and spent 18 years serving in the British Armed Forces, I have an American Passport due to the nationality of my Mother.

I am as British as you are and I have lived the kind of life that many of these people you dismiss because of their skin colour currently live, the difference between them and I, is that I was lucky enough to get constructive help and guidance when I needed it most.

Without sucking up, you seem to have done rather well for yourself, too. Good on you!

dirtydog · 15 Aug 2011 at 19:10

Castiel said:
I do not know, probably Meridian, I think he is from New Zealand, although I fail to see what that has to do with anything as I suspect his opinion is as valid as anyone else's, given the issues in New Zealand in regard to Racism and Immigration.

Not Meridian, I know that. Although him being from NZ doesn't surprise me given some of the tripe he comes out with.

Obviously you didn't, otherwise my first answer that I was British would have sufficed.

No I mean to the second question where I asked if you had obtained British citizenship. It wasn't that I didn't believe you so much as we might 'both' have been right (or half right) if you see what I mean.

the shadow · 15 Aug 2011 at 19:10

Another story for you DD http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-compensation-legal-costs-migrants-year.html
I pay Tax you won't hear me complaining about chavs with 8-10 kids watching Jeremy Kyle all day

dirtydog · 15 Aug 2011 at 19:15

the shadow said:
Another story for you DD http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-compensation-legal-costs-migrants-year.html

Castiel · 15 Aug 2011 at 19:16

Forde said:
Without sucking up, you seem to have done rather well for yourself, too. Good on you!

With help, lots of it.

Anyone can do well for themselves. It annoys me as much as DirtyDog when I hear these kids going on about how hard their life is and how they are forced into criminality, antisocial behaviour and are basically blaming everything other than their own choices for their behaviour.

There are problems that they face, such as social deprivation, poor education provision, homelessness, peer pressure and a myriad of other issues that can contribute to the pressures these kids face, however they are still responsible for their own actions and there is help if they want to find it. They do not have to riot, they do not have to take drugs, they do not have to commit crime. They need to face up to their responsibilities and we as a society should be engaging them and helping them to do so, not ignoring them, blaming their skin colour or further alienating them from the communities in which they live.

How we do this is the question we should be asking, not blaming the colour of their skin.