Little boy murdered

Cuchulain · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:14

Putting him in to general population rather than segregation (which is where he'll more than likely end up) would be a far better punishment than the death sentence.

[FnG]magnolia · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:16

Vonhelmet said:
It doesn't. America provides all the evidence we need for this.

You won't change any minds here, these types of threads never do. You're right, of course, but it's unimportant to the people you're aiming this at. People want their eye for an eye and their pound of flesh regardless of stats, evidence and logical thinking.

DBT85 · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:19

Vonhelmet said:
Pragmatically speaking, how much is that worth? Because executing people is enormously expensive.

That all depends, how much is a life worth? If this guy got sent to jail, gets out in 25 and then kills another child and we find out that its the same guy who did the same thing 25 years ago and could have been prevented it will go down like a lead balloon.

And could you define enormously expensive for me? I honestly have no idea how much it costs, or on the flipside, how much it costs to hold them in cells, feed them, keep them clean, pay guards to risk their lives to monitor them for say 30 years.

tidusjar · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:20

Wow... I really don't know how people could do these things. It disgusts me.

Strife212 · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:22

Vonhelmet said:
But it is the time for wishing for outlandish violence on the perpetrator of a crime?

Outlandish violence?

Retribution is justice.

Not to mention the re-offense rate of 0%.

EniGmA1981 · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:24

I've got a 3 year old boy who I'd die for and reading that news link brought a tear to my eye... I can't understand how any father could turn his hand to his own child like that! It really makes my blood boil!

+1 for not separating that scumbag from the rest of the prisoners... let them rip him to pieces and we'll see how tough he is then!!

RIP little guy.

DBT85 · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:24

[FnG]magnolia;19968163 said:
You won't change any minds here, these types of threads never do. You're right, of course, but it's unimportant to the people you're aiming this at. People want their eye for an eye and their pound of flesh regardless of stats, evidence and logical thinking.

I am perfectly capable of changing my mind on the situation since I've never given it more than a few moments thought and have never delved into any stats, evidence or logical thinking. I don't actually have a firm opinion. Much like I'm not Tory or Labour or lib Dem, I'll make my mind up as I go rather than sticking to one party regardless like SO many people do.

I never said he SHOULD be killed, or that all rapists should have their knobs cut off or anything like that. All I said was, killing a murderer stops him doing it again. And that is a simple fact. I have no idea how many murderers in this country get released and murder again. I have no idea how much it costs to interr or how much it costs to kill one.

I don' appreciate the suggestion that I am some caveman who acts on emotion and is incapable of reasoned logical argument.

Mucky_Pup · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:31

Charge will get knocked down to some degree of "manslaughter" as it always seems to, and he'll be celebrating his 35th birthday as a free man, now there's justice for you :rolleyes:

Scougar · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:32

Truly saddening. Poor kid, and his poor mum.

shoes · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:34

How disgusting

I hope he has an arse like the japanese flag by the time he leaves.

Poo kid didn't stand a chance!

Rainagul · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:34

Vonhelmet said:
It doesn't. America provides all the evidence we need for this.

Care to expand with said evidence?

Vonhelmet · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:35

Todge said:
That all depends, how much is a life worth? If this guy got sent to jail, gets out in 25 and then kills another child and we find out that its the same guy who did the same thing 25 years ago and could have been prevented it will go down like a lead balloon.

And could you define enormously expensive for me? I honestly have no idea how much it costs, or on the flipside, how much it costs to hold them in cells, feed them, keep them clean, pay guards to risk their lives to monitor them for say 30 years.

It costs far more to keep a person on death row with a view to executing them than it does to keep them in prison for life. Part of that cost is the enormous number of appeals which any just society would have to endure.

And the question of the value of a life is one that I deliberately threw in, because it gives rise to utterly outlandish arguments. Of course a life is near priceless, but that doesn't mean you should pay such a sum to prevent any lives being lost.

Vonhelmet · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:36

Strife212 said:
Outlandish violence?

Retribution is justice.

No, it isn't.

Tummy · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:36

[FnG]magnolia;19967792 said:
The death sentence wouldn't change what your OP described.

Indeed.

"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Ghandi.

It's a sad and tragic story

Vonhelmet · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:37

Rainagul said:
Care to expand with said evidence?

States with the death penalty - Texas for example - have a comparable murder rate to States without.

stockhausen · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:39

Do you seriously think that the death penalty would have saved this child's life?

As an aside, Princess Margaret's hugely entertaining friend George Brown who also happened to be the Deputy PM came from Swadlincote

DBT85 · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:44

Vonhelmet said:
It costs far more to keep a person on death row with a view to executing them than it does to keep them in prison for life. Part of that cost is the enormous number of appeals which any just society would have to endure.

And the question of the value of a life is one that I deliberately threw in, because it gives rise to utterly outlandish arguments. Of course a life is near priceless, but that doesn't mean you should pay such a sum to prevent any lives being lost.

Do you have any further reading material for me?

Vonhelmet said:
States with the death penalty - Texas for example - have a comparable murder rate to States without.

And that's a fine argument for those saying that the death penalty is a deterrent.

It doesn't address the death penalty as a solution to the question "What should we do with this guy who just murdered 16 people in cold blood who we caught on cctv with a close up and his DNA is everywhere who is quite clearly a mental beyond all help".

Tummy · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:45

You know killing people regardless of the motivation for doing so just makes you as bad as them.

Mucky_Pup · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:48

Tummy said:
You know killing people regardless of the motivation for doing so just makes you as bad as them.

No it doesn't. Give me a decent salary and pension plan, I'd gladly pull the lever with no quibbles whatsoever.

DBT85 · 1 Sep 2011 at 13:48

Tummy said:
You know killing people regardless of the motivation for doing so just makes you as bad as them.

If the mother had got a knife and stabbed him in the chest while the attack was in progress and he died, would you still say that she is as bad as him? honest question.

Had she killed him dureing that attack nobody would care that he was dead. What people take umbrage with is the idea of killing someone once the attack is over and the person is incarcerated. Heat of the moment is ok but under a cold rational spotlight it isn't.

Little boy murdered

Capodecina