Do you help keep torrents alive?

Stretch · 7 Sep 2011 at 00:27

Larkspeed said:
it is as soon as they brandish a court order which they seem to do a lot of lately

That's why you need to chose carefully. A public tracker on the other hand is, well public.

Energize · 7 Sep 2011 at 00:32

Stretch said:
That's information isn't available to the authorities for the moment.

It is with a warrant.

Al Vallario said:
A legitimate payment for a legitimate service. Hundreds of gigabytes of what exactly?

If authorities wanted to they could gain access to the premesis and monitor all data being sent and recieved.

Al Vallario · 7 Sep 2011 at 00:36

Rainmaker · 7 Sep 2011 at 00:36

Energize said:
It is with a warrant.

How does one get a warrant for someone not allegedly sharing copyright material?? Only torrents upload as they download, Usenet only offers downloads.

If authorities wanted to they could gain access to the premesis and monitor all data being sent and recieved.

Again, why and how? They want the big uploaders and scene groups, not Joe Blogs downloading yesterday's TV show. That's if they could even get it past a judge.

Ahleckz · 7 Sep 2011 at 00:37

Al Vallario said:
Speed and security.

Most of the major usenet providers (Giganews, Astraweb et al) can max out any connection you throw at them. With encrypted downloads, only your usenet provider and you know what you're downloading, and most don't keep logs.

You have to be mad in the head to download things of a questionable nature using torrents, whether on public or private trackers, without taking appropriate precautions (VPN, seedbox in another jurisdiction, etc.) Those precautions also cost money.

There's no such thing as a free lunch

Speed? Anything that I want to download I can do quick enough for my needs. I can't imagine why I'd pay extra to get something a few minutes quicker. My time isn't that precious.
Security? Blah blah blah. I'll take my chances, as will millions of other people on the planet. I suspect you have greater chance of winning the lottery than being caught doing anything illegal with torrents. How many convictions have their been in the UK? 10?

Toothy1911 · 7 Sep 2011 at 00:39

Yes I carry on seeding...

But because I'm a member on a couple of Private trackers, so I have to

Last time I checked my ratio on the latest one I joined im at around 20Gb downloaded, and 200+ uploaded haha. I'm too generous!

Energize · 7 Sep 2011 at 00:43

Al Vallario said:
That situation would require the cooperation of the usenet provider in question in the case of encrypted downloads. What kind of usenet provider is going to allow authorities to enter their premises and install monitoring software on their systems with the aim of prosecuting their customers?

They will do what is required by law.

Rainmaker said:
How does one get a warrant for someone not allegedly sharing copyright material?? Only torrents upload as they download, Usenet only offers downloads.

The credit card transactions are stored by the companies bank, a record of everyone who has paid them is there. The companies bank records are attainable with a warrant.

Again, why and how? They want the big uploaders and scene groups, not Joe Blogs downloading yesterday's TV show. That's if they could even get it past a judge.

I didn't say they would go after someone downloading tv shows. I said if they wanted to go after people they could. If your downloading movies, the issue of traceability is moot in the first place.

Al Vallario · 7 Sep 2011 at 00:47

Energize · 7 Sep 2011 at 00:50

Al Vallario said:
No existing law either here in the UK or in the countries in which the major usenet providers operate would permit that kind of operation. It's an absolutely preposterous suggestion.

Not at all. The police enforce such monitoring warrants all the time, phone taps being one such example.

You do realise usenet subscriptions are entirely legitimate, and that evidence of payment for a usenet subscription is not evidence of any wrongdoing whatsoever?

It provides traceability to a greater extent than bittorent does, which was the issue mentioned.

Tom84 · 7 Sep 2011 at 00:57

G-MAN2004 said:
I take what I need, then go. Sorry guys.

Al Vallario · 7 Sep 2011 at 01:03

Energize · 7 Sep 2011 at 01:09

Al Vallario said:
I can't wait until courts start issuing wiretapping authorisations for citizens of other countries for minor acts of copyright infringement, with no possible evidence to obtain such a court order

They don't need to. They raid the company for hosting illegal material, at which point they now see everyone downloading and uploading illegal material.

Rainmaker · 7 Sep 2011 at 01:10

Energize said:
It provides traceability to a greater extent than bittorent does, which was the issue mentioned.

You're missing the point. It would be impossible to get a warrant for Usenet because it's a legitimate service with no unlawful uploading (sharing) involved. Therefore they wouldn't get a warrant to begin with. Only sharing (i.e. torrents) are unlawful/illegal.

Even if they did, 'traceability' is moot. So you proved I paid for a legal and legitimate web service. Bully for you. Meanwhile anyone can connect to an ILLEGALLY shared bittorrent swarm and log IPs. It's a trivial matter to obtain details from an IP if one wants (it's hardly a rare occurrence these days).

Rainmaker · 7 Sep 2011 at 01:11

Energize said:
They don't need to. They raid the company for hosting illegal material, at which point they now see everyone downloading and uploading illegal material.

They'd be as well raiding Google tbh. There's a reason law enforcement has never raided a Usenet service provider, and it's because they're just that - a legal service provider.

Energize · 7 Sep 2011 at 01:13

Rainmaker said:
They'd be as well raiding Google tbh. There's a reason law enforcement has never raided a Usenet service provider, and it's because they're just that - a legal service provider.

The reason is they don't care, just like torrents and even illegal pornography.

Even if they did, 'traceability' is moot. So you proved I paid for a legal and legitimate web service. Bully for you. Meanwhile anyone can connect to an ILLEGALLY shared bittorrent swarm and log IPs. It's a trivial matter to obtain details from an IP if one wants (it's hardly a rare occurrence these days).

An IP address is one thing (which can easily be obscured), an individual identified by credit card is another entirely.

Creelers · 7 Sep 2011 at 01:14

I do my part.

Al Vallario · 7 Sep 2011 at 01:20

Energize · 7 Sep 2011 at 01:22

Al Vallario said:
They raid the data centre, find a large number of servers and networking equipment that they don't know what to do with. The servers are all shut down and removed as evidence.

The servers are later analysed by investigators, who realise the usenet provider did not keep logs of downloads by their subscribers, so they have no evidence of their subscribers committing any criminal offences. Likewise, the usenet provider themselves are protected from prosecution for hosting infringing material under safe harbour laws.

That's not how it works. With the rise of disk encryption, computers are not turned off in a professional raid. Nor are clueless idiots sent in.

Rainmaker · 7 Sep 2011 at 01:24

Energize said:
That's not how it works. With the rise of disk encryption, computers are not turned off in a professional raid. Nor are clueless idiots sent in.

Nor are Usenet providers raided so what's the point of the discussion?