Advice needed on parking ticket from UKPC

dmpoole said:
There were zero markings, you make it sound like there was some markings there, there wasn't.
Click to expand...

There was a sign there. Given that the entire rest of the street had markings the fact they were missing was also something that should have made you think 'hmm, whats going on here'.

There was no space and I don't know why you keep saying there was.
Click to expand...

Well there was a space, otherwise there would have been nothing to park in!

I didn't see it however YOU ARE WRONG.
Click to expand...

So you keep saying. You feel so strongly about it you even bring it into a completely different thread I'd previously not posted in, in a seperate sub forum, 2 weeks later.

I never mentioned disabled street parking but car park parking.
There are many car parks in stoke where disabled badge holders have to pay.
Click to expand...

According to Stoke City Council there are only two carparks, both Multistory, where this is the case.

All open air carparks and all on street parking meters are free for disabled badge holders. And given this was on-street parking the status of two completely unrelated multistories is therefore irrelevent.

Disabled badge holders have to pay if they don't park in that one disabled bay that has now been marked.
Click to expand...

No, they do not. They can park in any of the spaces on the street you parked in, free of charge, up to a certain number of hours.

My blue badge mates said they would expect to park anywhere up that street without paying because that is what the sign says but now the bay has been marked they will be fined if they don't pay.
Funnily enough they can park on the opposite side of the road on yellow lines for 3 hours.
In Stoke if there is a disabled bay marking on the road they don't have to pay but, in some places, if they park outside of that bay they have to pay.
My wife has been fined for this when having her Mums blue badge in the window because she also, like you, thought she could park for free.
Click to expand...

Where do you get all this stuff from? Do you just make it up or do you just beleive what everyone else tells you?

The official line, direct from Stoke on Trent City Council:

With a Blue Badge you can park for:
■three hours on yellow lines, as longas the car is not blocking the road or it is not parked in a loading bay;
■three hours in a limited waiting bay;
■free on our surface car parks;
■free in pay and display bays on the street in Stoke-on-Trent;
and
■free in disabledbays on street for three hours or without time limit (check the signs on street for details).
Click to expand...

There. In black and white.
 
Last edited:
[TW]Fox;20048582 said:
All open air carparks and all on street parking meters are free for disabled badge holders.
Click to expand...

I've got to go to bed now but explain this one.

In the OP there is a street about 100 yards long with no markings on it.
There is a sign at one end saying Disabled Badge Holders Only Free Parking.
Now that a bay has been marked do you now agree that the sign only means that blue badge holders don't pay in that parking bay?
Now because that bay has been marked this now means that if they park anywhere else up that road they have to pay completely going against what you have posted from the Stoke Parking site?
Of course they should get off on a technicality.

Oh and my blue badge mates have assured me they have to pay on some car parks in Stoke once again going against what you have quoted from the site.
Once again they should get off on a technicality.

[TW]Fox;20048582 said:
Where do you get all this stuff from? Do you just make it up or do you just beleive what everyone else tells you?
Click to expand...

See above.
All of them (including my wife) and a bloke who's blue badge I used in Brum last Sunday have all had fines in Stoke completely going against what is wrote on the Council website.

Probably this is a case of Stoke Council trying it on and most people don't argue.
It must be so hard to be perfect.
 
Last edited:
dmpoole said:
In the OP there is a street about 100 yards long with no markings on it.
There is a sign at one end saying Disabled Badge Holders Only Free Parking.
Now that a bay has been marked do you now agree that the sign only means that blue badge holders don't pay in that parking bay?
Click to expand...

No, it means only blue badge holders can park in the bay. The 'Free Parking' shouldn't even be there - they receive free parking anyway.

Lets consider for one moment the intention was to allow anyone to park there for a fee, but disabled badge holders to park there for free. The text 'Disabled Badge Holders Only Free Parking' isn't even gramatically correct, is it? It doesn't make sense. Free Parking was another another line anyway, so the first sentance did read 'Disabled Badge Holders Only'.

I agree that the sign is not conforming to legislation - the 'Free Parking' text is inappropriate - but then we are back to the letter versus spirit of the law thing.

It's just a space for disabled people. They are the only people who can park there. Hence a sign saying 'Disabled Badge Holders Only'. The next bit is irrelevent to you - all you needed to read was 'Disabled Badge Holders Only'.

Now because that bay has been marked this now means that if they park anywhere else up that road they have to pay completely going against what you have posted from the Stoke Parking site?
Click to expand...

No, they don't have to pay in the other spaces. They can park free in any of the bays they so desire to use.

Oh and my blue badge mates have assured me they have to pay on some car parks in Stoke once again going against what you have quoted from the site.
Once again they should get off on a technicality.
Click to expand...

I wonder who I believe here? I've got a choice of 'your mates' or Stoke City Council, who are responsible for setting parking charges.

Hmmm, a tough one. Especially as it seems that no matter what the discussion at hand is about - everything from purchasing Tupawear to the presence of Space Aliens - you've got a mate who has been there, done that, and has an experience which co-incidently seems to perfectly validate whatever point you are making :p

It must be so hard to be perfect.
Click to expand...

Yea, because obviously thats where this is going, right? I've had parking tickets. Well, one. I moaned to myself and paid it.

Your situation is completely different to the one in the OP and the fact you brought yours up yet again just makes you seem really bitter about the whole thing - as several other posters have picked up.
 
Last edited:
[TW]Fox;20048708 said:
I wonder who I believe here? I've got a choice of 'your mates' or Stoke City Council, who are responsible for setting parking charges.

Hmmm, a tough one. Especially as it seems that no matter what the discussion at hand is about - everything from purchasing Tupawear to the presence of Space Aliens - you've got a mate who has been there, done that, and has an experience which co-incidently seems to perfectly validate whatever point you are making :p
Click to expand...

It's another true dmpoole story.
 
OP, I'm going through the same thing. The missus parked in a town car park and duly paid the fee. The machine gave no receipt and we where promptly billed £250 for illegally parking the car. Time of entry and time of leaving where displayed on the demand stating that the missus stayed 10 seconds longer than she was supposed to. Lies, lies and more lies.

We have so far received five threatening demands for stupid amounts of money but we have no desire to pay them. A quick check of google shows that the company involved has been prosecuted several times and their MO, is to pester you with six letters before they give up. Not long now before they realise we aren't falling for it and give up pestering us.
 
Last edited:
[TW]Fox;20048386 said:
You parked in a disabled space that to everyone else was obviously a disabled space purely by virtue of the admittedly crappy sign. Stoke Council had screwed up by not ensuring the bay was fully marked up
Click to expand...

I don't know the full story but if that's true then he did nothing wrong.

Davies vs Heatley 1971:

even if a sign is clearly recognisable to a reasonable man as being a sign of that kind, if it doesn't conform to regulations no offence is committed.

(de minimis excluded)

Therefore no amount of "oh come on, you knew you weren't supposed to park there!" makes any difference. If the council want to enforce regulations then they can't make them up as they go along. If the sign is wrong, it effectively doesn't exist.
 
gambitt said:
I don't know the full story but if that's true then he did nothing wrong.

Davies vs Heatley 1971:

even if a sign is clearly recognisable to a reasonable man as being a sign of that kind, if it doesn't conform to regulations no offence is committed.

(de minimis excluded)

Therefore no amount of "oh come on, you knew you weren't supposed to park there!" makes any difference. If the council want to enforce regulations then they can't make them up as they go along. If the sign is wrong, it effectively doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Actually I'm with [TW]Fox on this one believe it or not.

I don't know how signs should look or what the laws are so I'm not interested in technicalities or loopholes.
On that day at that time, before Stoke Council came out and decided to paint lines, there were no lines - not a single one except for some very faint double yellows to the right.
Just because there is a sign doesn't mean that an area directly in front of it is a disabled space when there is no space and the sign doesn't say where the disabled parking is.

Now what me and [TW]Fox haven't worked out is what is really going on here because we're just playing tennis.
My mates have all been done v Stoke Council website.
What's now obvious is that traffic wardens aren't doing their jobs right and I can tell you for a fact that all around Stoke On Trent on a Friday and Saturday they all come out in force at about 8:30pm.
This is because we have only recently started to pay for parking in the evening and they know they can get people.
They are scum and obviously prey on those they don't argue back.

Fox, I know my mates will be very interested in the Council site where you cut & pasted from and one of them has texted me saying he is going to print it out and put it in the window with his blue badge.
Can you provide the link please.

[TW]Fox;20048708 said:
Hmmm, a tough one. Especially as it seems that no matter what the discussion at hand is about - everything from purchasing Tupawear to the presence of Space Aliens - you've got a mate who has been there, done that, and has an experience which co-incidently seems to perfectly validate whatever point you are making :p
Click to expand...

I actually go out of the house.
You have no idea how many people over the last 53 years have been in my close circle and every one with real life experiences and not something that happened on a computer screen.
I think Wicksta has never been out of the house - shame.
 
Last edited:
gambitt said:
I don't know the full story but if that's true then he did nothing wrong.

Davies vs Heatley 1971:
Click to expand...

This is already recognised and accepted - read above. He could have got out on this technicality but paid first therefore meaning he subsequently couldn't. But that doesn't mean it wasn't wrong to park there just as it's still wrong to do 70mph in a 60mph zone when the police officer is holding an uncalibrated LTI 20/20.
 
dmpoole said:
I don't know how signs should look or what the laws are so I'm not interested in technicalities or loopholes.
On that day at that time, before Stoke Council came out and decided to paint lines, there were no lines - not a single one except for some very faint double yellows to the right.
Just because there is a sign doesn't mean that an area directly in front of it is a disabled space when there is no space and the sign doesn't say where the disabled parking is.
Click to expand...


Ah sorry, I should have been more clear - by "sign" I mean all street furniture, including lines. A sign is meaningless without the lines and vice versa, unless it's in a conservation area with say, cobbled streets they don't want to paint on :D - the council have obtain a letter of special authorisation from the DfT for this though.

It's amazing what a council will try to get away with. I've had tickets quashed for practically non existent lines but months later I still see wardens issuing tickets on other cars parked in the exact same space with the lines unchanged :rolleyes: So they agree the ticket was incorrectly issued but they let the wardens carry on because most people will just pay up.
 
Last edited:
gambitt said:
Ah sorry, I should have been more clear - by "sign" I mean all street furniture, including lines. A sign is meaningless without the lines and vice versa, unless it's in a conservation area with say, cobbled streets they don't want to paint on :D - the council have obtain a letter of special authorisation from the DfT for this though.

It's amazing what a council will try to get away with. I've had tickets quashed for practically non existent lines but months later I still see wardens issuing tickets on other cars parked in the exact same space with the lines unchanged :rolleyes: So they agree the ticket was incorrectly issued but they let the wardens carry on because most people will just pay up.
Click to expand...

Like I said I don't know the ins & outs of what it should be but after driving for 37 years and parking all over Stoke On Trent I have got a fairly good idea of what signs & markings should look like.
I've had parking fines before and I've been banged to rights even though there may have been technicalities to fight it but I've just accepted my error.
In this case all the 'furniture' was wrong, in fact half of the furniture was missing and the furniture that was there didn't say anything about a zone so Ikea sent somebody up and put the settee back in but still haven't altered it's label.
Like you said in your post that Councils will just leave it and still ticket people hoping they will pay but in this case they actually saw for themselves and had to do something about it.
They saw exactly what the 9 of us saw and knew they couldn't leave it like that.
Here in Stoke I play several pubs that are in Car Park land (Hanley & Burslem) and around 8:30 when I'm testing the PA and I will always announce if people have paid their £1 parking and every time several people will run out.
This is because we have only recently had to pay in the evening and the scum know everybody doesn't read The Sentinel where they wrote a very small message about it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom