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johntmanic · 16 Sep 2011 at 10:53

Forde said:
Right, so 'proper' Travellers are the tax-paying, law-abiding decent folk? If so, it's a bit of a shame that their name is tarnished by the criminal kind that defraud old ladies and steal everything that isn't nailed down.

Yeah they are! They hate being associated with '******'. I didn't know any of this until I got with my girlfriend.

spudbynight · 16 Sep 2011 at 12:04

johntmanic said:
Yeah they are! They hate being associated with '******'. I didn't know any of this until I got with my girlfriend.

Hmm....aren't the majority of those you call "******" of Irish extraction?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller

What we have in this country are the following :

- People of Romani Gypsy extraction
- People of Irish Traveller extraction
- New Age wierdos

spudbynight · 16 Sep 2011 at 12:11

johntmanic said:
****** are what were shown on Big Fat Gypsy wedding where the males didn't want to show their faces incase the benefits people saw them! They don't generally work etc. Horrible class of people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Doherty_(television_personality)

Paddy Doherty is an Irish Traveller.

Under UK law they are recognised as an ethnic group.

***** is just a derogatory term for them.

People of Pakistani origin are called the P word.
People of black origin are called the N word.
People of Irish Traveller origin are called the P word used on this thread and it is no different.

Edrof · 16 Sep 2011 at 12:15

spudbynight said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Doherty_(television_personality)

Paddy Doherty is an Irish Traveller.

Under UK law they are recognised as an ethnic group.

***** is just a derogatory term for them.

People of Pakistani origin are called the P word.
People of black origin are called the N word.
People of Irish Traveller origin are called the P word used on this thread and it is no different.

If you're quoting Wikipedia I'd include the part where it mentions that Ireland itself does not consider them to be an 'ethnic group' at all, instead terming them a 'social group'.

Out of interest, when the Dale Farm people have been evicted, where are they going to go?

Ahleckz · 16 Sep 2011 at 12:17

Black people aren't scum on the whole, nor are Pakistani's. Gypos are. They don't deserve respect.

spudbynight · 16 Sep 2011 at 12:29

Forde said:
If you're quoting Wikipedia I'd include the part where it mentions that Ireland itself does not consider them to be an 'ethnic group' at all, instead terming them a 'social group'.

We are in the UK and here they are classed in law as an ethnic group.

They are classed as a social group in Ireland but are protected in full in all equality legislation.

I have had some run ins myself. The rugby club that I am involved in has had caravans park on our playing pitches during the summer on a number of occasions. In fact, cliche ridden as it sounds, we had the lead stolen from our roof two years ago.

Regardless of how bad some of these people are you can't go around tarring all with the same brush*.

*The only people you can do that with are the Welsh**.

**Joke

spudbynight · 16 Sep 2011 at 12:30

Ahleckz said:
Black people aren't scum on the whole, nor are Pakistani's. Gypos are. They don't deserve respect.

If I was to say that Scots on the whole were scum who didn't deserve respect how would that make you feel?

There have been some prominent people of Irish traveller stock.

Roy Keane's father was a settled traveller. Shayne Ward's* parents are both settled travellers.

*He won singing idol or something on ITV

Ahleckz · 16 Sep 2011 at 12:36

spudbynight said:
If I was to say that Scots on the whole were scum who didn't deserve respect how would that make you feel?

There isn't any factual, anecdotal and visible evidence of that so I'm not even going to entertain that idea. Not that it matters but I'm not actually Scottish. On the other hand, look at wherever gypsies go (my previous community was blighted by them) and they cause crime, mess, destruction, vandalism and mass anti social behaviour all around. It isn't the odd occurrence, it is almost every single time they group together that they bring a negative effect on the local community.

I agree with you, there will undoubtedly be some good in the gypsy community but it seems by and large that they are in the minority (whereas in pretty much any other 'group' it is the other way round).

spudbynight · 16 Sep 2011 at 12:45

Ahleckz said:
There isn't any factual, anecdotal and visible evidence of that so I'm not even going to entertain that idea.

Well there is this for a start :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4257966.stm

I can Google lots of other pieces worth reading. Now, I don't think that every Scot adheres to a stereotype in the same way that every traveller doesn't.

Ahleckz said:
Not that it matters but I'm not actually Scottish. On the other hand, look at wherever gypsies go (my previous community was blighted by them) and they cause crime, mess, destruction, vandalism and mass anti social behaviour all around. It isn't the odd occurrence, it is almost every single time they group together that they bring a negative effect on the local community.

I agree with you, there will undoubtedly be some good in the gypsy community but it seems by and large that they are in the minority (whereas in pretty much any other 'group' it is the other way round).

I don't disagree with that per se. My point is that you can't apply an offensive label to a whole group of people based on the actions of one segment of that community.

Ahleckz · 16 Sep 2011 at 12:53

I said that on the whole. I'm not stating that everyone in the group are scum, I'm stating that a large proportion are. Maybe it's the fact that they are so close and unwelcoming to outside help (as demonstrated by their refusal to cooperate in police investigations) solve issues. People that refuse to help the police solve crimes and bring people to justice, are in my mind, scum.

Whilst I don't believe the following it may explain my belief further. A minority cause problems but the majority allow it to happen and don't try and address the problems that a minority cause. This in turn associates them all with creating the trouble and should be dealt with appropriately. (I however believe that the majority create trouble).

The Scotland crime rate has been discussed to death (pardon the unfortunate pun), and violence happens everywhere. The reason that Scotland's is slightly higher is down to a few reasons but one main one is Glasgow's problem with gang culture (we have more gangs than London up here). Thankfully violence is generally gang on gang. A member of the public getting stabbed is the exception, rather than the norm the media will lead you to believe.

Edrof · 16 Sep 2011 at 13:01

spudbynight said:
There have been some prominent people of Irish traveller stock.

Roy Keane's father was a settled traveller. Shayne Ward's parents are both settled travellers.

Although I agree with many of your other points, if you're citing Shayne Ward as a paragon, you've got some serious problems.

johntmanic · 16 Sep 2011 at 13:17

spudbynight said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Doherty_(television_personality)

Paddy Doherty is an Irish Traveller.

Under UK law they are recognised as an ethnic group.

***** is just a derogatory term for them.

People of Pakistani origin are called the P word.
People of black origin are called the N word.
People of Irish Traveller origin are called the P word used on this thread and it is no different.

Paddy Doherty is a ***** whether you see that as a derogatory term or not. He lives in a house on a site and doesn't travel and doesn't do jobs that are associated with gypsys/travellers.
I get called a joskin from travellers and even though you can class that as a derogatory term I don't cry myself to sleep at night about it!

spudbynight · 16 Sep 2011 at 13:19

Ahleckz said:
I said that on the whole. I'm not stating that everyone in the group are scum, I'm stating that a large proportion are. Maybe it's the fact that they are so close and unwelcoming to outside help (as demonstrated by their refusal to cooperate in police investigations) solve issues. People that refuse to help the police solve crimes and bring people to justice, are in my mind, scum.

Whilst I don't believe the following it may explain my belief further. A minority cause problems but the majority allow it to happen and don't try and address the problems that a minority cause. This in turn associates them all with creating the trouble and should be dealt with appropriately. (I however believe that the majority create trouble).

The Scotland crime rate has been discussed to death (pardon the unfortunate pun), and violence happens everywhere. The reason that Scotland's is slightly higher is down to a few reasons but one main one is Glasgow's problem with gang culture (we have more gangs than London up here). Thankfully violence is generally gang on gang. A member of the public getting stabbed is the exception, rather than the norm the media will lead you to believe.

Just try replacing any references to ****** with references to blacks and see how it sounds.

spudbynight · 16 Sep 2011 at 13:21

Forde said:
Although I agree with many of your other points, if you're citing Shayne Ward as a paragon, you've got some serious problems.

LOL - those were tongue in cheek. I find it amusing that you single out Shayne Ward rather than Roy Keane.

Edrof · 16 Sep 2011 at 13:27

spudbynight said:
LOL - those were tongue in cheek. I find it amusing that you single out Shayne Ward rather than Roy Keane.

I don't care for Keane much, either, but at least he has sporting talent, has worked very hard over decades to be successful and reached the pinnacle of his profession.

spudbynight · 16 Sep 2011 at 13:28

Forde said:
I don't care for Keane much, either, but at least he has sporting talent, has worked very hard over decades to be successful and reached the pinnacle of his profession.

He is also a really nasty hate filled individual. If I had a daughter and she was going to marry one of them I would have much more of an issue with Keane.

Edrof · 16 Sep 2011 at 13:33

Well, that I didn't know! I don't follow football much.

spudbynight · 16 Sep 2011 at 13:36

Forde said:
Well, that I didn't know! I don't follow football much.

I'd waited long enough. I ******* hit him hard. The ball was there (I think). Take that you ****. And don't ever stand over me sneering about fake injuries. Talking about Alf Inge Haaland tackle, quoted in book Keane - the Autobiography .

Even in the dressing room afterwards, I had no remorse. My attitude was, **** him. What goes around comes around. He got his just rewards. He ****** me over and my attitude is an eye for an eye.
Talking about Alf Inge Haaland tackle.

Wiki said:
He made headlines again in the 2001 Manchester derby, a game in which Alf-Inge Haaland played. Five minutes from the final whistle, he was sent off for a blatant knee-high foul on the Norwegian in what was seen by many as an act of revenge.[32] He initially received a three game suspension and a £5,000 fine from the FA, but further punishment was to follow after the release of Keane's autobiography in August 2002, in which he stated that he intended "to hurt" Haaland. Keane's account of the incident was as follows:
I'd waited long enough. I ****ing hit him hard. The ball was there (I think). Take that you ****. And don't ever stand over me sneering about fake injuries.[33]
An admission that the tackle was in fact a premeditated assault, it left the FA with no choice but to charge Keane with bringing the game into disrepute.[34] He was banned for a further five matches and fined £150,000 in the ensuing investigation. Despite widespread condemnation,[35] he later maintained in his autobiography that he had no regrets about the incident: "My attitude was, **** him. What goes around comes around. He got his just rewards. He ****ed me over and my attitude is an eye for an eye."[33]

Nice guy! This was in retaliation for Keane injuring himself while fouling Haaland previously. Haalaand at the time suggested that Keane was feigning injury so he wouldn't get sent off.

Ahleckz · 16 Sep 2011 at 14:47

spudbynight said:
Just try replacing any references to ****** with references to blacks and see how it sounds.

Nice argument. :rolleyes:

Like I said, blacks don't go into communities, create widespread disorder, crime, mess, anti social behaviour, and are generally tolerant of others. Gypos on the other hand...

Nickyyy · 16 Sep 2011 at 15:20

Theres a lot of settled travellers around the town I live in, and I deal with them in my work, they seem decent enough, but they once came round asking if they could have a raidator which was outside while out room got renovated. It scared me but they havent tried to steal it so far..

****** will be ******...

will be ...