Welcome to the 2s Club: The fastest cars go head to head drag racing!

[panthro]

You can't use launch control with traction control on you silly billy

Part of 'race mode' initialisation is turning traction OFF, which then allows you to add an extra bar to the shift speec ferocity, which then allows you to hold the auto mode selector forward for 2 seconds while in neutral to get the race indicator on etc etc etc.

You learn something new everyday! I thought it would have allowed MDM. I think even if I had launch control on a car I'd never use it except once to see if it was any good.

 

[nucastle]

Yeah it doesnt feel 'nice' dumping a clutch on 5k rpm.

MDM in the new cars is fully configurable now, so it can mean anything you want really (combination of electronic throttle response, traction control, electronic damper control and steering wheel stiffness). Personally i leave traction ON as all experiments with even 'sports' traction control had the car going sideways.


Back on track though. I wonder WHY you can use LC all day long on a 911 and it's fine, but on a GTR it affects servicing/warranty - Perhaps the Nissan has a more fragile gearbox?

 

[Dr Who]

The GTR makes it look easy, but the noise from that Fezza, WOW!

Yup, for that price it has to have something better than the GTR to satisfy a petrolhead

But it truely was glorious sounding.

 

[alchemistkevin]

Yeah it doesnt feel 'nice' dumping a clutch on 5k rpm.

MDM in the new cars is fully configurable now, so it can mean anything you want really (combination of electronic throttle response, traction control, electronic damper control and steering wheel stiffness). Personally i leave traction ON as all experiments with even 'sports' traction control had the car going sideways.


Back on track though. I wonder WHY you can use LC all day long on a 911 and it's fine, but on a GTR it affects servicing/warranty - Perhaps the Nissan has a more fragile gearbox?

Is there any concrete info to back that up or is it just going by what one instructor said?


I would be surprised to find that Porsche had a system that didn't knacker their clutch on constant use of LC that no other manufacturer has been able to copy/make.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Is there any concrete info to back that up or is it just going by what one instructor said?

I would be surprised to find that Porsche had a system that didn't knacker their clutch on constant use of LC that no other manufacturer has been able to copy/make.

Googling turns up plenty of stories about this. LC voids the warranty in a GT-R and causes a lot of wear in a Ferrari. Apparently Porsche's system is rock solid, and there's speculation that Lamborghini's is pretty tough as well.

 

[Gibbo]

Googling turns up plenty of stories about this. LC voids the warranty in a GT-R and causes a lot of wear in a Ferrari. Apparently Porsche's system is rock solid, and there's speculation that Lamborghini's are pretty tough as well.

Colleague had a 911 C2S PDK for a day whilst his 911 C2S manual was in for a service.

Lets just say we used the LC at every sat of traffic lights we came too it was so easy and did not seem too stress the car in anyway.

However we both had the same conclusion, we preferred the manual, it was more involving and been able to blip the throttle when you went was a nice novelty of the manual too.

However it was not a Sports Chrono equipped PDK so no Sports+ and it had buttons not paddles. Paddles and Sport+ I imagine is more engaging and even quicker.

But Porsche seem to have no limit on using their LC and from actually using it I can see why as its all a rather smooth affair that seems to not risk damaging the car yet makes launching fast easy and repeatable.

 

[Blackhawk47]

There is no denying the TT RS is the best performance coupe/hairdresser newish car on the market which is affordable.

40k gets you one of these and with a stage one remap your gonna be getting the following stats:-

0-60mph - 3.5 - 4.0s
0-100mph - 7.5s - 8.0s
60-100mph - 4.2s
60-130mph - 9.3s

OK thats from the speedo and timing speedo's is never too accurate due to speedo in-accuracy and human pressing start/stop on a stopwatch.

But the combination of S-Tronic (DSG), AWD (Haldex), Lightness (1450kg) and a remap the TT RS is without doubt one of the quickest cars on the road.

Having driven one I can tell you they are a doddle to launch, even the manuals which is a rarity for 4WD and turbo cars as they normally bog down or need loads of revs, with the TT RS you just drop the clutch at 2500-3000rpm and you catapult off.

When I test drove one I was tempted, because £2500-£3000 get them upto stage2 (circa 440-450BHP), which results in even better performance than the above car.

Just to give you an idea of how fast these things are:-

My 570BHP Mustang would loose in a race in all situations, out the traps, on a roll etc. Hell not even an M5 V10 can keep with these things with a Stage1 upto 140mph and with a Stage2 they are noticably quicker, probably on par with the new M5.

So yes its a TT RS, but damn they are so quick.

Infact its quite upsetting, the TT RS is quicker than my 911, it also gets hugely better MPG and cost less to service and keep, infact they are a very cheap car to own.

I'd recommend anyone to drive one as in my view its one of the best RS cars Audi have released for ages and its tunability makes it very attractive, yes it understeers and has typical Audi lack of involvment but the suspension and Haldex system can be tweaked quite a bit to give them more feel/fun factor in the handling stakes too.

I'd still take my 911 over one even though its slower for sheer involvment and driving pleasure, but kudos where kudos is due this new TT RS is one mighty mighty quick car out of the box and a simple remap puts it in super-car territory performance wise.

I would love to get a TTRS one day as IMO it is the perfect balance between everyday car and race car. We are hoping for 11.7 Quarter mile time next weekend.

Yes to some people it is just another TT but to those who know what the RS stands for and the spec, it is a great car. My mate from a Golf GTI Mk5 dsg with stage two 300bhp and even he is blown away by it.

As it so happens he wants to get either a 911 GT2 or 911 Turbo or Audi R8 next year.

 

[panthro]

I would love to get a TTRS one day as IMO it is the perfect balance between everyday car and race car. We are hoping for 11.7 Quarter mile time next weekend.

Yes to some people it is just another TT but to those who know what the RS stands for and the spec, it is a great car. My mate from a Golf GTI Mk5 dsg with stage two 300bhp and even he is blown away by it.

As it so happens he wants to get either a 911 GT2 or 911 Turbo or Audi R8 next year.

For some reason I cant explain, I really want a TT RS too. I think my car is better than it in nearly every factor except outright grip, but theres something about them, possibly the traction, interior (I dont like my E92 interior) and the glorious noise from the engine that really makes me want one.

 

[Gibbo]

For some reason I cant explain, I really want a TT RS too. I think my car is better than it in nearly every factor except outright grip, but theres something about them, possibly the traction, interior (I dont like my E92 interior) and the glorious noise from the engine that really makes me want one.

The TT RS with its stage 1 also has considerably better performance too, afterall that puts them up to M5 V10 performance and not just on paper, but real world too and the M5 V10 is might fast!

With a stage 2 its pretty much mind blowing.

 

[Eriedor]

Is there any concrete info to back that up or is it just going by what one instructor said?


I would be surprised to find that Porsche had a system that didn't knacker their clutch on constant use of LC that no other manufacturer has been able to copy/make.

The instructor I spoke to said the key difference was PDK is a wet clutch where as the Ferrari use a dry clutch which could account for the difference in abuse they can take

Colleague had a 911 C2S PDK for a day whilst his 911 C2S manual was in for a service.

Lets just say we used the LC at every sat of traffic lights we came too it was so easy and did not seem too stress the car in anyway.

However we both had the same conclusion, we preferred the manual, it was more involving and been able to blip the throttle when you went was a nice novelty of the manual too.

However it was not a Sports Chrono equipped PDK so no Sports+ and it had buttons not paddles. Paddles and Sport+ I imagine is more engaging and even quicker.

But Porsche seem to have no limit on using their LC and from actually using it I can see why as its all a rather smooth affair that seems to not risk damaging the car yet makes launching fast easy and repeatable.

Without Sports Chrono how did the car have LC?

I was very impressed with PDK and Sports Chrono+ in the Cayman R, it was so "racey" really suited the character of the car, but like you I still would opt for the manual, it would be slower in every aspect but far more rewarding long term.

 

[Gibbo]

The instructor I spoke to said the key difference was PDK is a wet clutch where as the Ferrari use a dry clutch which could account for the difference in abuse they can take



Without Sports Chrono how did the car have LC?

I was very impressed with PDK and Sports Chrono+ in the Cayman R, it was so "racey" really suited the character of the car, but like you I still would opt for the manual, it would be slower in every aspect but far more rewarding long term.

If I remember correctly we were pressing both buttons at the same time, flooring the throttle and just releasing the buttons and it just launched. When my colleague is online shall ask him, it may have had the Sports+, shall have to verify. I can't remember us pressing PSM off and Sports+ but it was over 2yr ago so a little vague.

 

[mrk]

You can use LC all day long as well and its fine.... Unlike a GTR where you (as far as i know) stand to lose your warranty or have to put it in for servicing or something if you use it more than a few times per day/week/month/etc.

Everything I have watched and read and spoken by Nissan's people in other videos says that on the MY11 you can have 4 launches back to back before you have to drive a mile or so so the transmission can cool down, then you can launch again. Obviously nobody launches from every stop in any car, that's just stupid!

No warranty issues or anything though on the 2012 GT-R.

 

[panthro]

The TT RS with its stage 1 also has considerably better performance too, afterall that puts them up to M5 V10 performance and not just on paper, but real world too and the M5 V10 is might fast!

With a stage 2 its pretty much mind blowing.

Stage 1 is 400bhp?

I don't think I would tune it as I wouldnt want to screw with the warranty.

 

[Housey]

GT3 RS 4.0, more rewarding to drive on the limit than all of them....I suspect. Runways are for statistic kiddies and Americans, whilst fun at the time no question, give me a mountain side road, an RS and a sunny early morning any day. THAT is what performance motoring should be about, followed by a few laps of Spa when you pull off the mountain and then lunch on the rear spoiler.

 

[mrk]

Probably because there are only a few places that offer such an amazing Mountain side road and you can't enjoy that every other day either

 

[Fr0dders]

You can use LC all day long as well and its fine.... Unlike a GTR where you (as far as i know) stand to lose your warranty or have to put it in for servicing or something if you use it more than a few times per day/week/month/etc.

GTR no longer has any warranty implications of using launch control.

They introduced a revised version that launched at lower revs and was much kinder to the gearbox / engine.

So all models after a certain date are fine, and i believe you could take your launch day car in to have the changes fitted retrospectively.

 

[Jonny69]

I really enjoyed those videos. I find it amazing that you can buy cars off the shelf now that run low 11 second quarters and spend a bit more and have a car that runs in the 10s. Go back 15 years and 10 second quarters were only in the realm of drag racers with some serious tyres, serious horsepower and Lenco gearboxes. Cars like that barely resembled a 'road' car. No tubbed out 18" wide Mickey Thompsons on Centrelines in this thread

 

[Housey]

Probably because there are only a few places that offer such an amazing Mountain side road and you can't enjoy that every other day either

There is that, but good cross country run will suffice.

 

[Fett]

Googling turns up plenty of stories about this. LC voids the warranty in a GT-R and causes a lot of wear in a Ferrari. Apparently Porsche's system is rock solid, and there's speculation that Lamborghini's is pretty tough as well.

Just to clear this up and to add to mrk’s and Mr. LOL's posts...

Until the MY11, there was no official LC. So you couldn’t void your warranty by using LC. You could however void it if you launched the car with VDC off. If Nissan decided you had abused the car, you paid for the new tranny. Although this affected all of 0.01% of warranty claims, owners didn’t like Nissan’s stance, or the wheel hop.

Nissan had not accounted for sheer end-user stupidity, so a few months after the US release, there was a software update (LC2). This dropped the rpm from 4500 to 3500 and an engagement module to reduce driveline shock.
After a year of **** slinging, Nissan offered an amnesty to all GT-R drivers who had used VDC off but were still using LC1. Upgrade to LC2 and we’ll all be friends again.

LC3 is released, RRR mode is LC at 3300rpm, full launch covered under warranty.

LC4 is the latest, and the only “Launch Control” officially recognised by Nissan.

Nissan are confident enough to allow 4 back-to-back launches. After that, due to the heat in the clutch packs, the car needs to be driven for a mile and half and you can start again.

The GR6 box is good for 850-1100 bhp, depending on what tuner you are talking to.

The Porsche LC allows for one launch, then a mile drive for pack cooling and away you go again.

Both Porsche and Nissan owner manuals explicitly state that using the LC feature will reduce the life of your driveline and engine due to stress.
And I suspect both manufacturers have a threshold where if you really, really take the ****, they’ll claim abuse or misuse of a feature.

It’s all a bit silly as bar press cars and demonstrators, how often do you think you would use it? In two and half years, I’ve probably used it a dozen times for timing purposes and a few passenger show-off rides. It’s a marketing tool, nothing more really.

 

[Blackhawk47]

The TT RS with its stage 1 also has considerably better performance too, afterall that puts them up to M5 V10 performance and not just on paper, but real world too and the M5 V10 is might fast!

With a stage 2 its pretty much mind blowing.

A mate of ours has this TTRS, and gone mental with the mods, stage 3 - 500bhp, huge turbo, fastest TT in the country got 10.8 seconds (or something sub 11) on quarter mile. And I still remember when he first got it and it was all stock.