Why isn't there more choice of QWERTY smart phones

[Xinn]

Even HTC, who used to be the kings of hardware keyboards, haven't released a QWERTY phone in about a year now.

HTC ChaCha says hi!

 

[Skeeter]

I think the supply and demand theory would stand up if there had previously been lots of choice of Android HW phones in the market.

But there hasn't been.

Its not a fact of people not wanting them, we have just never really been offered them in the first place.

HW keyboards were (and are) seen as a 'business phone' thing. The iPhone was a trendy phone not specifically aimed at business, and so all the trendy phone clones are SW only too.

HW keyboards are on BB's and a lot of W7 phones as they have a history of having them. Android phones have never really adopted them as they are riding the popularity that the iPhone created, which also doesn't have a HW keyboard.

Like I said, if the iPhone 5 was launched with a HW keyboard, within 18 month you wouldn't be able to move for HW keyboard phones.

 

[Glaucus]

There has been HW phones before, but they certainly are a business phone. They add complexity, weight and cost. Most people right short texts and maybe the occasional email. Most non business users do not need or want a keyboard. Therefore there's only a few specialist phones catering for a small Market.
I'm sure nokia will have one when they get there act together on w7 phones.

 

[Skeeter]

I never said there had never been HW keyboard phones, just that there have never been many Android HW keyboard phones.

And I wouldn't say that most users don't want or need one, the simple fact is that when in the iPhone/Android market, they haven't really been given a choice.

 

[manveruppd]

There has been HW phones before, but they certainly are a business phone. They add complexity, weight and cost. Most people right short texts and maybe the occasional email. Most non business users do not need or want a keyboard. Therefore there's only a few specialist phones catering for a small Market.
I'm sure nokia will have one when they get there act together on w7 phones.

But you might be confusing the symptom for the cause: it could be that the reason most people only send the occasional short text is BECAUSE touchscreens are such a pain to type on! I used to do ACTUAL WORK on my HTC Universal (like, editing Word documents and everything!), and I can just about do so on the DZ too. (What's stopping me is the fact that it didn't come with decent Office apps, unlike the WinMo phones did, not the smaller keyboard)
And whoever first thought of selling BBs designed for 30-something financiers to 14-year-old girls might not have been as radical a genius as it would appear,because lo and behold, I know people who do the whole social networking thing EXCLUSIVELY through their BBs even though they own perfectly good computers! All that's needed is a decent keyboard!

What will eventually save touchscreen phones is better voice input. Currently it's pathetic. But until then they won't be viable for any heavy user.

HTC ChaCha says hi!

Oh yeah, forgot about that one! Looking at it you could tell why it'd be easy to forget about though

 

[Glaucus]

You might do work on it, but you are a minority.
Even if there was a proper keyboard, most people do not and would not use their phone for heavy typing. Text message, Facebook and twitter are short email is the main use for everyday people.

Companies will always Market for the masses and once you full outside that there is still options but they'll be limited.

 

[Skeeter]

I still think the 'the masses' have been told what a smartphone should be like by the iPhone.

 

[Glaucus]

I still think the 'the masses' have been told what a smartphone should be like by the iPhone.

Why? Why would the masses want or need a keyboard? It makes no sense for the masses. No way I would buy one over just a touch screen. I simply don't type enough on a phone to warrant the downsides.
And tablets are going to shrink the Market further as people will use tablets more and more for the heavier work loads.

 

[Skeeter]

I think you have highlighted the core of the discussion here:

You don't think a HW keyboard makes sense for the masses because you don't type enough on a phone to want one.
I think a HW phone option makes sense for the masses because I like to use them.

Phone choice is heavily down to personal preference. I totally get why some people don't want a HW keyboard, but I also get why other people do. The problem is we don't really have a choice, and that is because the popular device that opened up this whole market (the iPhone creating the trendy, general consumer smartphone market) is a touch screen only. Other manufacturers have followed the trend.

 

[Glaucus]

It is down to personal preference and I've said that.

How much typing do you think a typical user does? It'll be next to nothing and as such doesn't warrant a HW keyboard. You've already said you are a heavy user and as such fall outside the norm.

 

[Skeeter]

I'm not a heavy user. It has nothing to do with how much I type, and everything to do with how I type.

I have no issue using an on screen keyboard, they work fine, I have an issue with the space it takes up on my screen, and the lack of precise control.

But like I said, I don't want all phones to have keyboards, I would just like the choice.

 

[Myshra]

Compares BB to iOS
a. even though that age group should be the most "fashion conscious" customers, they're still buying BBs despite the fact that they're business phones, so while people in their 30s might sorta like their understated designs, they have absolutely no "cool factor" whatsoever, and
b. they're more expensive to own since most providers charge extra for BBS services like BBM.
So, no, touchscreens aren't good enough for most people to type on. Some people are prepared to put up with them because they either don't do a lot of typing or because style is more important to them than usability. But the reason I made a dig at Apple is because they were the first to say "we'll go after only one segment of the consumer market, and force everyone else to conform to it through fashion and peer pressure".

A: BBs have been popular since the consumer PAYG BIS launch and made more popular by the race to the bottom of 24 month contracts which are now the majority of the market. This allowed for handset costs to be more easily absorbed (in return for new revenue streams like data) by networks shifting handsets that were more expensive into lower markets. Blackberries enjoy popularity in all major agegroups but standout with 50+ and <25 which is to be expected - the former used them from day 0 - the latter used them from the second generation for social use when it was a nice balance between features (keyboard for high input use especially) and price. The bit about blackberries being unfashionable is pretty amusing though, they are often seen as the most fashionable phone brand in under 20s RIM make consumer and business phones, the lines are so obvious their initials show them - no ones confused.

B: I don't like calling people out but this is all wrong The standard bill (and TCO for the contract) for an iPhone user is a lot higher than a BB user. This is due to the influx in lower tier deals that paired BBs with cheaper plans about 3 years ago as RIM shifted a bunch of consumer based handsets. Also there are no "Extra charges" in the vast majority as BIS is combined with internet usage or as part of a contract. The very top end shows this sure enough - compare iPhone 4 prices before the august drop to BB9900 plans. Difference is ~25% per month. Hell Samsung play the bigger market and were under by around 35% at launch due to low costs.

As for the other stuff - keyboards are a part-desired feature but only shine for users with high data entry requirements (like the person who did SSH in this thread). If there was more desire for them this feature would show up more in focus groups and the networks would ask the manus to make them.

The masses brought 4x iPhones as SGS2s in one month recently. the phone manufacturers still listen I assure you

edit ^^^ Choice will cost over £10M per handset for a good one, phone manufacturers don't gamble on that sorta budget

 

[Glaucus]

I don't get the screen space, when you're typing, you aren't browsing the rest of the screen. It's not like you can type and browse a website at the same time.

There is choice, along the lines of demand. The demand isn't there so it's a fringe Market with limited supply.
Most people will only type a couple of sentences at a time and touch screen on a phone for that is more than adequate.

 

[Skeeter]

I only type a couple of lines at a time, and the on screen keyboard still bugs me.

Its a pointless argument though AH2, we we will never agree. Its personal preference vs. personal preference. I am not going to change my preference in the same way you aren't. We like different things, so we shall leave it at that.

The problem for me is that what I like isn't available, and your argument that the current norm (i.e. touch only) is fine fo you so is therefore fine for everyone doesn't stand up.

Us HW fans would like more choice, but as long as manufacturers follow what the market are buying (iPhones, basically) then we aren't going to get it, even though the market 'trend' is actually just people buying from a choice of 1.

 

[Glaucus]

That's the thing I'm not saying it's not personal preference it certainly is and I'm not and haven't said what is fine fore me is fine for everyone else, that isn't the case.

But the question is why isn't there more. The answer is lack of demand because it's simply not needed for most people and adds, cost, complexity and weight. I really think it's that simple and that people who want or need a HW keyboard are in the minority and companies won't offer hundreds of designed for a minority group. It's simply supply and demand.

 

[Skeeter]

I disagree. The lack of choice has created the illusion of the lack of demand. People aren't buying HW keyboard Android phones, but not because they don't want them, but simply because there are none.

 

[Glaucus]

If it was a game changer, there would have been much more demand in the earlier days when there was plenty of HW models about. The demand simply isn't there to warrant lots of models. Android isn't the only OS and other than blackberry which aphas a unique metrology, the demand for other OS wasn't high, not even nokias excellent contributions had massive Market shares.

 

[Xinn]

There is choice, I can think of atleast 2 fairly recent Android phone that have qwerty keyboards in the form of the HTC Desire Z and the HTC ChaCha. I've never seen anyone with the Desire Z and only 1 person with the ChaCha.

The choice is there for people that want it but if having a hardware keyboard is a priority then the vast majority of people would go down the BB route as they are the obvious choice and they seem to do it well.

 

[Skeeter]

If it was a game changer, there would have been much more demand in the earlier days when there was plenty of HW models about. The demand simply isn't there to warrant lots of models. Android isn't the only OS and other than blackberry which aphas a unique metrology, the demand for other OS wasn't high, not even nokias excellent contributions had massive Market shares.

The market Android was aimed at was created by the iPhone, and as such, the iPhone set the standard for how the hardware should look.

There is choice, I can think of atleast 2 fairly recent Android phone that have qwerty keyboards in the form of the HTC Desire Z and the HTC ChaCha. I've never seen anyone with the Desire Z and only 1 person with the ChaCha.

The choice is there for people that want it but if having a hardware keyboard is a priority then the vast majority of people would go down the BB route as they are the obvious choice and they seem to do it well.

The Desire Z is hardly recent, and it was a US aimed device that was released over here to late so was under powered against its rivals. Any clued up buyers realised this and bought better specced handsets.

The ChaCha is an attempt to clone a BB. Again, people who want a BB go and buy a BB.

 

[manveruppd]

@Myshra: Fair enough on the second point, I forgot how many more pricepoints RIM are offering phones at compared to Apple.

@AcidHell2: You're assuming a perfect market there, where the best phone will always win. You take no account of things like fashion, peer pressure, platform lock-in, and incentives offered by manufacturers to retailers which serve to restrict consumer choice (eg. the iPhone was exclusive to certain networks for years, UK carriers refused to stock the Pre 3, etc).
Are you, by any chance, an econometrician?

You might do work on it, but you are a minority.
Even if there was a proper keyboard, most people do not and would not use their phone for heavy typing. Text message, Facebook and twitter are short email is the main use for everyday people.

My point was that if I didn't have a phone with a keyboard, I WOULDN'T be doing work on it, because I couldn't! The smartphone market exploded with the release of the iPhone, so a whole generation of users have literally never used anything but touchscreen phones! I've had a smartphone since WinMo days, so I've gotten to try it and I know how much better it is, but for the majority it seems unnecessary because they never got to see how much easier it is to type on those things. The possibility that they COULD use a smartphone to do work on doesn't even occur to them: lack of demand was CREATED by the initial lack of demand! They see row upon row of touchscreen slates on the shelves and only a couple of keyboard models in the corner, so the lack of supply reinforces the lack of demand as it makes them look like "uncool" technological throwbacks.

I've never seen anyone with the Desire Z

Yo!