"alcohol is at least twice as harmful to users than cannabis and 5 times more harmful to society"

[hurfdurf]

what's to stop the same occurring from cannabis users? I guess there is less chance of someone over dosing on pot then there is on alcohol but the long term effects of excessive pot use has been fairly well documented and it's not a pretty picture.

It's already happening with cannabis, the drug being illegal is not stopping people doing this. Hell, its easier for children to get Cannabis than it is Alcohol because its criminal drug dealers selling it not regulated shops.

Legalising it would not increase the use, as shown in countries that have done this and in our own country when it was reclassified, it would instead take the trade away from the drug dealers into the hands of government regulated shops. This would then allow for far more education on the matter of over use and much more support for people who have fallen into that trap.

There would be and large be no major impact for society, people are using it with no regard for the law as it is anyway. Why not tax and regulate it. As I said earlier, the major problems of drugs come from them being illegal.

 

[LeJosh]

snip

It definitely is banned for a reason.

But not the health implications people believe it causes.

In fact, many ill patients would benefit from medial versions.

Is it legal over here to prescribe cannabis? I've heard of lone cases but...

 

[Morgoth]

By definition anything that is capable of causing injury, illness or death to an organism is classed as a poison.

No, they must have a certain toxicity to be considered a poison.

 

[LeJosh]

It's already happening in cannabis, the drug being illegal is not stopping people doing this. Hell, its easier for children to get Cannabis than it is Alcohol because its criminal drug dealers selling it not regulated shops.

Legalising it would not increase the use, as shown in countries that have done this and in our own country when it was reclassified, it would instead take the trade away from the drug dealers into the hands of government regulated shops. This would then allow for far more education on the matter of over use and much more support for people who have fallen into that trap.

There would be and large be no major impact for society, people are using it with no regard for the law as it is anyway. Why not tax and regulate it. As I said earlier, the major problems of drugs come from them being illegal.

Precisely.

 

[SteveOBHave]

No, they must have a certain toxicity to be considered a poison.

Depends on your source for definition.

 

[Morgoth]

So you call everything a poison then?

 

[SteveOBHave]

It's already happening with cannabis, the drug being illegal is not stopping people doing this. Hell, its easier for children to get Cannabis than it is Alcohol because its criminal drug dealers selling it not regulated shops.

Legalising it would not increase the use, as shown in countries that have done this and in our own country when it was reclassified, it would instead take the trade away from the drug dealers into the hands of government regulated shops. This would then allow for far more education on the matter of over use and much more support for people who have fallen into that trap.

There would be and large be no major impact for society, people are using it with no regard for the law as it is anyway. Why not tax and regulate it. As I said earlier, the major problems of drugs come from them being illegal.

Are there any countries where Cannabis is actually legal? I know it's decriminalised in many but I've not actually heard of it being legal anywhere... Whilst I agree that the criminalisation of drugs lends itself to underground gang related issues I'm not sure that on it's own it's a reason to make it legal. Where do you stop? Cocain legal? Acid legal? Heroin legal?

 

[LeJosh]

Are there any countries where Cannabis is actually legal? I know it's decriminalised in many but I've not actually heard of it being legal anywhere... Whilst I agree that the criminalisation of drugs lends itself to underground gang related issues I'm not sure that on it's own it's a reason to make it legal. Where do you stop? Cocain legal? Acid legal? Heroin legal?

You stop at cannabis...

 

[SteveOBHave]

So you call everything a poison then?

Potentially poisonous by definition... I guess. I'm not sure I get your point. I've not specifically stated that everything potentially poisonous is bad for you, merely that substances that cause rapid and obvious physiological and psychological effects are something to be wary of.

 

[hurfdurf]

Are there any countries where Cannabis is actually legal? I know it's decriminalised in many but I've not actually heard of it being legal anywhere... Whilst I agree that the criminalisation of drugs lends itself to underground gang related issues I'm not sure that on it's own it's a reason to make it legal. Where do you stop? Cocain legal? Acid legal? Heroin legal?

Cocaine is where things get complicated. Cocaine represents a drug that whilst fairly safe, is incredibly harmful if used incorrectly, same as Heroin, the problem with them both stems from misuse and the incredible addictive qualities. I would not legalise them on that basis but I must confess to having not done the research at all when compared with what I have studied when it comes to Cannabis use.

(Politics student, came up a lot from stoner students, I was selected to interview the deputy PM on the issue as one of the people who didn't smoke it but supported legalisation after reading up on the subject and was willing to stand and bang on the issue with Mr Prescott)

Acid on the other hand is demonstrably harmful to both individuals using it and society.

 

[hurfdurf]

As far as countries go. It's completely legal in Amsterdam apart from some weird left over laws that mean its technically illegal but wouldn't stand up in court and would lead to the law having to be rewritten because of the current legal conflict. No one has bothered to do it yet as its pointless.

Portugal just legalised all possession of drugs and began focusing on not criminalising drug users but facilitating and helping them, drug use as a result has reduced massively, the countries health has shot up and spending on drug enforcement has been able to be used else where policing wise, including going after drug dealers, because it is still illegal to sell the drugs.


Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

 

[SteveOBHave]

As far as countries go. It's completely legal in Amsterdam apart from some weird left over laws that mean its technically illegal but wouldn't stand up in court and would lead to the law having to be rewritten because of the current legal conflict. No one has bothered to do it yet as its pointless.

Portugal just legalised all possession of drugs and began focusing on not criminalising drug users but facilitating and helping them, drug use as a result has reduced massively, the countries health has shot up and spending on drug enforcement has been able to be used else where policing wise, including going after drug dealers, because it is still illegal to sell the drugs.


Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

Interesting article... I don't know enough about the subject to be able to comment on it in any meaningful way but if, on the face of it, it's accurate you'd have to wonder why more countries haven't taken this on board...

 

[zenf]

I'm another everyday smoker of about 7-8 years and just to reiterate, I'm not a criminal, I don't steal, I have a decent job, I live in a shared house with friends and I have a girlfriend, so please leave your propaganda influenced stereotypes at the door!

I won't try and say that cannabis is completely safe as for the purposes of this discussion I don't really see that as relevant... The question is whether there is any justification whatsoever for cannabis being illegal while alcohol and cigarettes are legal, and so far I haven't seen one half decent argument.

Any problems that cannabis could cause really don't compare to the risks/problems caused by drinking or smoking (aka, death). People are far less likely to act violently towards others when under the influence of cannabis as opposed to alcohol. Any issues caused by addiction can be applied to alcohol and tobacco aswell, so what's the justification?

 

[^TANK^]

What rubbish. Barbiturates? Please, not only are they worth more than cannabis (same with ketamine) but they are non existent these days, I think the last time I heard of them being on the black market was in the 70's. It wouldn't even be worth the persons time to cut it with half that stuff.

Well that information was probably sauced from the seventies/eighties and I have no doubts that most of those cheap chemicals are found in cheap nasty resin today.

 

[krooton]

It's all well and good saying these things, but one pint of beer won't 'get you high' and make you potentially dangerous, one 'spliff' could very well do that (and I've seen it happen first hand).

You can't compare active doses like that, one spliff does equate to one pint.

Drink 6 pints and you will be pretty drunk (give or take depending on your tolerance). Smoke 6 whole joints by yourself over the same period of time will leave the average person considerably more hammered.

People that develop issues from smoking do it too much and too frequently, just like people who develop issues with alcohol.

More of us in here than not are able to drink in moderation, have fun, not cause any trouble, and pay the price with a hangover the next day. Just because some people smoke in excess, why should the majority be denied the same freedom of choice as drinkers are currently allowed?

Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if gambling causes more damage than either weed or booze.

Another issue is that perception that all drug takers are criminals devoid of all morals. This is because criminals tend to drink and/or do drugs. This doesn't mean that the drinks/drugs are the cause of their criminal behavior though. Most black teens listen to Rap/Hip Hop, but that doesn't mean that listening to Rap/Hip Hop will make you black.

 

[hurfdurf]

Interesting article... I don't know enough about the subject to be able to comment on it in any meaningful way but if, on the face of it, it's accurate you'd have to wonder why more countries haven't taken this on board...

The general public are really stupid and easily led into thinking all drugs are bad. It is political suicide in most countries to use facts and statistics to run a countries social policies because, despite being correct, supposedly "common sense", such as the world being flat, is hard to argue with rationally.

 

[krooton]

Acid on the other hand is demonstrably harmful to both individuals using it and society.

Source?

The only people I've known to go doolally and get sectioned were addicted to meth and cocaine respectively.

I also know hundreds of people who have used or still used acid/shrooms with no detriment to their lives.

I'm intrigued to hear of how many lives have been ruined by acid and in what ways....

 

[do_ron_ron]

I'm another everyday smoker of about 7-8 years and just to reiterate, I'm not a criminal, I don't steal, I have a decent job, I live in a shared house with friends and I have a girlfriend, so please leave your propaganda influenced stereotypes at the door!

I won't try and say that cannabis is completely safe as for the purposes of this discussion I don't really see that as relevant... The question is whether there is any justification whatsoever for cannabis being illegal while alcohol and cigarettes are legal, and so far I haven't seen one half decent argument.

Any problems that cannabis could cause really don't compare to the risks/problems caused by drinking or smoking (aka, death). People are far less likely to act violently towards others when under the influence of cannabis as opposed to alcohol. Any issues caused by addiction can be applied to alcohol and tobacco aswell, so what's the justification?

Yet again the same old argument - my vice is less harmful than other's vice so it should be legal. Pathetic.

Govt. does take action to educate and legislate to reduce harm to individuals. Look at smoking recently or even levels of salt and sugar. At the end of the day it is the Govt. that has to pick up the tab for health probs.

No drug is safe, even the stuff you get from your doctor. There are always people who suffer side effects, even from aspirin.

It is just users wanting their habit made legal so they can get their fix easier.

You confess to repeatedly taking part in illegal activities over a number of years and helping fund drug gangs, that does make you a criminal and a social menace.

 

[SteveOBHave]

I'm afraid that I can't accept the 'I'm a smoker and I'm not a criminal" argument. You are part of a group of people that much like drinkers and fatties that put a large strain on the economy and the health system. It's a flawed argument to say that it should be your choice because ultimately, unless you're living on an island in the middle of nowhere and you smoke yourself to death and no-one ever knew you, your habit will effect someone else.

As a smoker you not only stink but you potentially effect your friends and family and the general public when you're walking down the road with your habit. It's not a victimless habit no matter which way you attempt to present it and your freedom of choice will be inflicted on someone else even if it's by stinking out the lift on the way back to your desk after puffing away out the back of the building... not to mention the added load you put on your workmates whilst you naff off to feed your habit...

Oh and yes you do stink whilst you sit at your desk...

 

[hurfdurf]

Source?

The only people I've known to go doolally and get sectioned were addicted to meth and cocaine respectively.

I also know hundreds of people who have used or still used acid/shrooms with no detriment to their lives.

I'm intrigued to hear of how many lives have been ruined by acid and in what ways....

Acid has massive long term affects and can cause all sorts of mental issues. I don't think its a completely negative thing but studies done as early on in the 1950's show how acid can affect thought processes and lead to disaster as its a psychedelic.