*shudder* if ever there was a case of "be careful what you wish for..."They will probably end up with a model that results in Alex Salmond being crowned King Alexander IV of Scotland....
'The Union'
- Thread starter Uhtred
- Start date
Very different. People aren't shooting people here. That to me is a night and day of a difference.
The process of negotiation upon a yes vote would be broadly similar in it's legislative undertakings but again not very comparable in my mind.
This is somewhat an irrelevent anyway, because this is not Ireland. Nor is Ireland really the benchmark or example to follow, they were tainted times.
I think it would help if you clarified what you think full independence would be, and what you think the realisation of SNP would unfold.
You are confused because I said neither, and what I did say is relatively simple. That conflating the EU and UK together in a referendum is unacceptable, and that the Irish Free State is not the current climate or example that should be followed. There are many differences between those complicated relationships and the ones under examination now.
I would also point out that a republic is an unlikely outcome given Scotland's relationship with the Crown.
I would be more than happy to divulge, however I think you need to clarify your definitions first as I have asked above.
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They will probably end up with a model that results in Alex Salmond being crowned King Alexander IV of Scotland....
Bit more inflated than the Keeper of the Great Seal of Scotland and First Minister. He might like it. His "High Excellency" was quoted as being his running favourite, however some parts of the press ran out of sarcasm that day.
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I don't think we differ in opinion with the above in terms of situation or process.
Indeed, as I said I was (am?) a little unclear as to your position which is why I asked if you would clarify.
Perhaps on reflection, and taking your comment into account, a constitutional monarchy similar to the model used by Norway could be a more appropriate basis?
Under the circumstances, and given your obvious knowledge on the subject I think it would be helpful for the ongoing conversation if you would share your view for an independent Scotland.
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Politeness would dictate that "you go first" since I asked first, and again and here is once more;
Athanor said:
You have an opinion on the matter which which I would like to hear first before progressing. In effect to gauge your understanding.
What is full independence, what is the wishy washy SNP policy?
So I can retort suitably.
Hard to say without some framework set around it, but yes broadly. It is still standing and outperforming the UK in several economic terms at the present under a fiscal framework not tailored directly to its needs.
I think we do get along generally, and I see no reason why we cannot. Politics always does this to people regardless of it being class, party political or sovereign in its focus. It might disappoint some, but we will continue to have a 'Special Relationship' after independence should it occur.
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Australia was never apart of the Union. It was apart of the empire or commonwealth, a British dominion.
I don't think Ireland would have an interest in returning to the Union, you never know mind you.
I believe I have offered two models of "full" independent nations that I felt at a high level could reflect a system and status suitable as an aspiration for a fully independent Scotland. I however accept that they could well be inappropriate. Indeed you have already suggested the model used by Eire is inappropriate, although, personally I think it represents a good example of how a country returning to governing as an independent state could work well within a European framework.
Could I suggest it would be helpful to the conversation if you were to share your view for an independent Scotland? If we have to go through every possible permutation of independence model with you providing suitable retorts we could be here longer than would seem sensible.
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I don't think Ireland does, the European framework wasn't around at that time. So while it does work now, it gives little example to follow currently. It just isn't a good example in my mind for various reasons, although I can see why it would be the first to choose.
Description of wishy washy plans, and one of "full" independence please?
As a point of interest, I don't think "full" independence (again dependent upon your definitions here) has been on the table for a generation at least.
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I believe I've highlighted my suggestion that the current model of Eire as an example of "fully" independent state within a European framework might be a suitable aspiration for a fully independent Scotland a couple of times. Of course I fully accept that the journey to that ultimate status for Scotland would be quite different. I also acknowledged that it may well not be suitable and take your comments with reference to Eire on board, in particular my obvious oversight as to the potential preference for a parliamentary monarchy rather than a republic.
I can't help but feel it's only polite for you to reciprocate and share your view. I, and given your comments I'm sure others, would be genuinely interested to understand what ultimate direction you believe Scotland should take.
I must confess to being somewhat surprised at your seeming unwillingness to add to the discussion by sharing your view for an independent Scotland given your informative detailed comments on other posts and obvious interest in the topic.
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Scotland was growing throughout the recession, 0.1% in general though.
But small but steady growth was always and is always the best idea, the growth people think happened when labour were in power was frankly false.
That wasn't what you were arguing initially though. But fine, that is your example. I accept it as your example. Moving on..
I will do once you reveal your rationale or belief for your initial comments first.
I think this is the fourth time I have asked you, what is "wishy washy" SNP policy and what is "full" independence?
Your understanding is key to my response, hence why I first asked you.
Because you repeatedly refuse to justify your previous and initial comments. You don't play ball, I don't play ball.
Labour are false period, that's why!
Appeal to the left, appease the right. Always going to end up in a political, social and economic headache.
Why thank you
Really? I'm surprised you are unwilling or unable to articulate an independent personal view, only one constructed as an adjunct to someone else's opinion. /shrug
There are many posters in this thread who have contributed one way or the other, a number of whose posts you have taken the time to critique. It seems to me a little churlish of you to hide behind solely de-constructing others contributions, but I suppose that is you choice.
Come now, if you are to retain any credibility it's time for you to add something positive to the thread. I'm confident many of us posting would value your contribution of your own personal view for an independent Scotland.
I of course accept I could be wrong and nobody is interested. Such is the fickle nature of an internet forum.
For the last time.
What is "wishy washy" SNP policy, what is "full" independence? Do you know?
This is the fifth time I've asked, and I've made clear why I am asking repeatedly.
You fail to display your understanding of the topic. I cannot meet your claims and argument until you adequetely explain them regardless of your flapping about.
If you cannot answer the first question I put to you, why should I continue?
It would help their banking situation wouldn't it? The Euro has not been kind to Ireland, though I suspect that leaving it isn't an option.
Calm down dear, it's only a forum. I've illustrated my view of full independence in terms of the model used by Eire several times. By definition, in my opinion, to offer the Scottish people the opportunity to vote on anything less is "Wishy Washy". I'm happy of course to accept that is just my opinion and as such has no basis other than that.
I'm very disappointed to see you continue to be unable or unwilling to put forward your own view for Scottish independence except as an adjunct to other peoples views.
Given your penchant for de-constructing and critiquing other peoples posts it seems a very poor show that you don't have the heart to put your own view up for consideration. It seems a missed opportunity to leave people to draw their on conclusions for you lack of confidence in your own view but there it is.
Shame really, but I dare say the conversation with others willing to contribute positively can carry on anyway.
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