Occupy London! Here we go again!

Hatter The Mad · 24 Oct 2011 at 17:41

scorza said:
I'm personally very sceptical about the reasons why St. Pauls had to shut. From what I've seen of the protest on TV, I can't see why health and safety would be affected. It's also very disappointing if the Church are employing minimum wage, temporary workers, but that's for another thread I guess.

I was there on Saturday. There is almost no way to get inside of St. Paul's, and there does seem to be a reasonable H+S risk from the owner's perspective.

They are losing about £20,000 a day from loss of custom, they said.

RDM · 24 Oct 2011 at 17:49

elmarko1234 said:
Idiot alert.

Would that be the one that hasn't read the bit of the FAQ on personal attacks?

Hatter The Mad · 24 Oct 2011 at 18:00

elmarko1234 said:
Problem 1. Some people who work (me) also don't like corporate greed.

Where possible, don't buy into it, then.

Problem 3. You clearly have no idea what communism is, China is capitalist to the core.

Except when it comes to the single party state, right?

Problem 4. Communism is not synonymous to fascism.

On paper, correct. In reality and historically, incorrect.

Problem 5. I'd wager good money you would be unable to define the core principles behind either Communist or a Fascist society without loading up WIKI, even then I doubt you would be able to understand it.

Ditto!

nuttyprot · 24 Oct 2011 at 18:20

Simple solution.

Get the tax from the large tax avoiding corporations, get the money back from the banks that the government bailed them out with. Reform the political system labor and conservatives have both shown they don't know what they are doing. Also start taxing the church.

Its the working class,youth and poorer people that are paying for the mess the government has made of this country over the past 40 years. OFC this will never happen as all the political parties need to wake up and realize and admit they screwed up.

Sadly things are going to get worse for this country a lot lot worse.

Hatter The Mad · 24 Oct 2011 at 19:20

nuttyprot said:
Simple solution.

Get the tax from the large tax evading corporations, get the money back from the banks that the government bailed them out with. Reform the political system labor and conservatives have both shown they don't know what they are doing. Also start taxing the church.

Its the working class,youth and poorer people that are paying for the mess the government has made of this country over the past 40 years. OFC this will never happen as all the political parties need to wake up and realize and admit they screwed up.

Sadly things are going to get worse for this country a lot lot worse.

Which corporations are tax evading?

[TW]Fox · 24 Oct 2011 at 19:23

elmarko1234 said:
Our current system of 1% owning 99% is much better.

Oh wai....

Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean we should adopt a system which is logically impossible. You will never get 100% of society to co-operate in the manner required for pure communism to work. It just cannot happen - this very thread and the people disagreeing in it is proof of that!

There are numerous people who are happy with the current situation. They go to work, they earn money, spend some of it to live and enjoy spending the rest. Many own and run businesses and enjoy that, as well. Just because the jobless whingers are unhappy (Can't they see that if they channeled the effort they put into railing against the system into something else they'd probably be earning money?) doesn't mean most people are.

nuttyprot · 24 Oct 2011 at 19:28

Hatter The Mad said:
Which corporations are tax evading?

Corrected

Dolph · 24 Oct 2011 at 19:53

nuttyprot said:
Corrected

It has been confirmed several times by the courts that there is absoutely nothing wrong with tax avoidance.

If you want to reduce tax avoidance, simplify the taxation system.

Hatter The Mad · 24 Oct 2011 at 19:57

Dolph said:
If you want to reduce tax avoidance, simplify the taxation system.

Ie lobby the government - do not expect corporations to not minimise their tax liability through legitimate means (which they are required to do by law, because they are legally obliged to deliver value to the shareholders, and paying tax isn't valuable to the shareholders).

Squid · 24 Oct 2011 at 21:01

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

What do people think of this , would taxing the Hardiest working & upping minimum wage allow the poor to work there way (after a few generations) out of the welfare state?

scorza · 24 Oct 2011 at 21:47

Hatter The Mad said:
I was there on Saturday. There is almost no way to get inside of St. Paul's, and there does seem to be a reasonable H+S risk from the owner's perspective.

They are losing about £20,000 a day from loss of custom, they said.

Good job the Church has a higher moral imperative than simply making $$$ then?

No way to get into St Paul's apart from the main doors, and the side entrance. H&S not a concern when a wedding is going on it seems: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15425738

Hatter The Mad · 24 Oct 2011 at 21:54

scorza said:
No way to get into St Paul's apart from the main doors, and the side entrance.

Have you been there (like I have), or are you just making up a load of crap?

The police have everything but the main entrance and courtyard barricaded, in case things get out of control.

scorza · 24 Oct 2011 at 21:59

Hatter The Mad said:
Have you been there (like I have), or are you just making up a load of crap?

The police have everything but the main entrance and courtyard barricaded, in case things get out of control.

No I'm looking at an actual picture of the protest. That's the police's decision to barricade the main entrance - don't blame the protesters for that. I can't see any reason why that police action is necessary, the protest has been peaceful so far.

RDM · 24 Oct 2011 at 22:07

scorza said:
No I'm looking at an actual picture of the protest. That's the police's decision to barricade the main entrance - don't blame the protesters for that. I can't see any reason why that police action is necessary, the protest has been peaceful so far.

After the flak they got for the student protests I am not really sure the police can trust any protest to remain peaceful.

Lindo · 24 Oct 2011 at 23:19

shoes said:
Lol yeah those companies MADE you buy those products, they FORCED you to take out loads you couldn't afford, they created products which make your life better and easier, they generate so much tax it would blow your mind and that then pays for all the nice things the government provide us with, infrastructure, pensions, welfare, healthcare, education..... they give people jobs, they give people a purpose in life, they give people income.

Frankly these hippies can go **** themselves and stop blaming the corporations for their own failures. Get back to school and study something other than art you thick *****.

You seem to have a very ignorant or intolerant view of the society we live and how vastly different peoples lives are. I think your comment might apply to a few protesters possibly, but you can't really sit there and defend something that the bankers and companies ****** up just because you've got some misunderstanding of these "hippies" and how the economy has affected there lives in a negative way, rather than how you said the economy affects our lives in a positive way. It's not evil, but the people with the most influence on it messed up and the people who have felt the brute end of that want to say something about it, and they're doing it whilst exercising there democratic right and not hurting anyone, so If they feel like that I say good on them! At least they're not on the news whining like bankers for deregulation all the time...

Lindo · 24 Oct 2011 at 23:21

scorza said:
No I'm looking at an actual picture of the protest. That's the police's decision to barricade the main entrance - don't blame the protesters for that. I can't see any reason why that police action is necessary, the protest has been peaceful so far.

Possibly with the threat of cuts, they're making sure they're seen to do there job better?

God knows, I never understand half the time why the police are needed at protests. It just escalates the situation.

Lindo · 24 Oct 2011 at 23:28

scorza said:
Why has OLSX caused min. wage temporary workers unemployed? Genuine question.

I have to admit I was very disappointed to read that the OLSX organising committee issued a statement in support of the ***** scum at Dale Farm. What has that got to do with the issues facing everyone today? It also makes me suspect that in this country at least they aren't really serious about what they're protesting about - just an excuse to take part in standing up to the man.

I disagree, I think it's better if certain political groups act together rather than we go back to the age of having 60 different factions of left-wing groups who all fought against the government, companies and each other. Then becoming so left that they go round to the right having leaderships and single-minded visions at what ever costs.

At least there seems to be some sort of solidarity between what is mostly anti-establishment groups and left-wing groups. As a person of that political persuasion, I don't think they've been too bad really. Has everyone forgotten about the 80's or something?

Tefal · 25 Oct 2011 at 06:58

scorza said:
I can't see any reason why that police action is necessary, the protest has been peaceful so far.

because all the other "protests" started off peaceful too, and it's cheaper to protect it than to repair it.

scorza · 25 Oct 2011 at 08:16

RDM said:
After the flak they got for the student protests I am not really sure the police can trust any protest to remain peaceful.

Yet where are they when there's some actual crime going on like the London riots? Nowhere to be seen.

PapaLazaru · 25 Oct 2011 at 08:22

The Police apparently flew over the tents last night with a thermal imaging camera. It appears that all bar 20% of these idiots are going home at night at the tents were all empty. :rolleyes: