Engineers/Engineering

[Chris1712]

Software Engineer is absolutely valid, and perhaps becomes more 'valid' the lower level you get. I absolutely consider myself an engineer.

On a similar note, can we get some distinction between IT & Computer Engineering. I am not in 'IT', I am a lowish level computer programmer.

 

[flibbage0]

or kids. I have yet to go to a school to talk to students about Civil/Structural engineering where they haven't asked me if engineers fix cars and kitchen appliances. Proper facepalm moment sadly.

They're kids, what do you expect.

I'm sure we've all had facepalm moments as a kid.

 

[Dandle]

If they are an engineer, a doctor, an accountant, a lawyer, a chemist, a physicist, etc etc then.. well..

Yes?

Does the thing thing apply to accountants who my wife has worked with and have no formal qualifications but are are FCs or FDs? Should they not be known as accountants?

 

[Moza]

I wonder if you have a look of disdain at the Planning Engineers, Technical Safety Engineers and Cost Engineers around your workplace.

 

[AndyT]

I am a proper engineer and everything and yes it ****es me right off when dunderheaded moon-faced ***** call themselves engineers. I.e Refuse Collection Engineer" (binman). The UK is the only country in the developed world that allows this to happen.

It's more than a little irritating when you see a sign on a bog door saying "there is a fault with this toilet, an engineer has been called". I would like to presume that the engineer who was called turned around and said "call a plumber". In reality some caretaker probably turns up and shoves his hand down the bowl to dislodge a particularly stubborn turd. Not quite sure how that requires years of study, CPD and involves the same level of responsibilty and liability that an engineer takes on.

People who don't care about this issue are not engineers and to be honest their opinion doesn't matter because it doesn't affect them anyway. It's a question of respect for the level of training, complexity and responsibility involved in what is a very challenging and economically beneficial job.

This may sound up my own ****, but I strongly believe in being recognised fairly for what you do. I wouldn't call myself an Accountant because I have a piggy bank.

 

[alx]

or kids. I have yet to go to a school to talk to students about Civil/Structural engineering where they haven't asked me if engineers fix cars and kitchen appliances. Proper facepalm moment sadly.

Guess it's ingrained in society from a young age....

 

[danza]

I was speaking to a friend of a friend, and upon mentioning that I was working toward a HND and hopefully a degree in mechanical engineering, he said something along the lines of it being useful for when I want to work on my car. I'm not what I'd call precious about being in engineering/working toward being an engineer, but I nearly bit his head off. He was about 30 years old, so I really don't know how he didn't know better.

 

[Bar]

I do love these debates, people get so worked up about the smallest of things.

True engineers are incredibly capable people and in general engineering in its truest sense is vastly undervalued in this country. However does it really matter if technicians call themselves an engineer?

Also there are a number of jobs that have a familiar name but there is no degree qualification. My own is a case in point, I am a Business Architect, but I have no degree in architecture. There is no Business Architecture degree (apart from some vaguely related thing in Spain) but does that detract from what I do or Architects in general? No, I dont think it does.

A name is a name, thats all, its the capability behind the individual that matters more than the name.

 

[div0]

I still can't believe how many people get worked up over a title.

I've studied Engineering, I've got an Engineering Degree and I work in Engineering, but I couldn't care less what anyone else refers to themselves as.

It's not as if being an Engineer is really that special. Do you actually think your life would be different if 'fake' Engineers had to refer to themselves as something else?

Girl: What do you do?
Guy: Oh I'm a repair technician
Girl: Next....
Next Guy: Hey baby, I'm a REAL Engineer
Girl: ZOMG, let me have your babies!!!!!

 

[Dinomania]

True engineers are incredibly capable people and in general engineering in its truest sense is vastly undervalued in this country. However does it really matter if technicians call themselves an engineer?

Nail, head.

The misuse of engineer is irritating, but is somehow used differently and has a different root in this country than it does elsewhere - that's allow, English is mental after all.

The only thing really is whether the misuse of the moniker is just like you mention architect is used (metaphorically, suggesting you design a business' structure), or if it's a symptom of people misunderstanding its meaning.

 

[Yojimbo01]

This is almost as bad as a dentist without a DDS degree calling themselves Dr. You should hear the medics/DDS people rant on.

Personally, being a 2nd year Chemical Engineering student, if someone has not studied/mastered some fluid mechanics, heat transfer, thermodynamics etc they are not engineers. Right now I do not regard myself as an engineer as I have not mastered fluid mechanics and thermodynamics. Engineering is vvvv hard and I have THE utmost respect to everyone who has graduated with a BEng/MEng degree.

 

[Tokenbrit]

This.

Seems we've hit a nerve with Tokenbrit

It is possibly because I have a lot of experience of smug engineers (real ones).

Most of them seem to think they are all that because they have conned somebody into paying them ££££ to plug models into FLUENT or some other piece of software they don't understand the workings of, and watch what happens

I think diagnosing a fault with a washing machine probably involves more problem solving and intellect than that.

Certainly the chap who comes and fixes my washing machine doesn't have his head remotely as far up his ass as the smug engineers.

 

[p4radox]

I'm a graduate engineer and this whole issue used to annoy me a lot more than it does now.

Don't get me wrong, I still absolutely hate the fact that a lot of people think that because I'm an engineer I plug in Sky boxes for a living. But if I was genuinely concerned I'd move out of the country - and quite possibly will one day. Engineers can earn roughly twice as much in, for example, Canada, Germany or Australia. For now, I can't be bothered.

 

[Windle]

I don't understand the insistence of some people here on university/college qualifications for a skilled job. I started in my current job as an Assistant Technician near enough fresh out of high school.

During my time here I've done a lot of internal/external training courses and have a list of relevant training longer than many degree qualified engineers and have worked my way up from Assistant Technician -> Technician -> Assistant Engineer -> Engineer to where I am now which is Project Management.

There are multiple routes into skilled professions which can be achieved without university/college university. Most of the graduate engineers (Civil/E&M) we employ require a great deal of mentoring to get up to a useful standard where as we have staff with no qualifications who can be given new tasks and pick it up with ease. You don't even require a degree to obtain membership of a body like the chartered institution of civil engineering surveyors as long as you have relevant demonstrable experience.

With your definition I wouldn't be an Engineer as I lack a formal degree qualification yet I have considerably more experience than many degree qualified engineers and project manage jobs from small value day works to million pound framework contracts.

 

[UK-AL05]

I don't understand the insistence of some people here on university/college qualifications for a skilled job. I started in my current job as an Assistant Technician near enough fresh out of high school.

During my time here I've done a lot of internal/external training courses and have a list of relevant training longer than many degree qualified engineers and have worked my way up from Assistant Technician -> Technician -> Assistant Engineer -> Engineer to where I am now which is Project Management.

There are multiple routes into skilled professions which can be achieved without university/college university. Most of the graduate engineers (Civil/E&M) we employ require a great deal of mentoring to get up to a useful standard where as we have staff with no qualifications who can be given new tasks and pick it up with ease. You don't even require a degree to obtain membership of a body like the chartered institution of civil engineering surveyors as long as you have relevant demonstrable experience.

With your definition I wouldn't be an Engineer as I lack a formal degree qualification yet I have considerably more experience than many degree qualified engineers and project manage jobs from small value day works to million pound framework contracts.

Depends, how do you know what is involved in a degree if you have never done one.

Formally qualified engineers in the real work often never get show their real mustard(They never need it), so you never get to see the PDE's and Fourier transforms they can do backwards. You can get by being educated as tech in a engineering role because of all software than handles this automatically now.

Same with computer science, often people who jump into a software role miss out all the mathematical proofs, Big O, A.I and machine learning you learn at university.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Does the thing thing apply to accountants who my wife has worked with and have no formal qualifications but are are FCs or FDs? Should they not be known as accountants?

You can become a chartered engineer without formal qualifications, so I don't see how your point is valid.

There can't be many finance directors with no qualifications though!

I never mentioned a degree only meeting requirements for chartered status. This does not mandate a degree.

 

[Dandle]

There can't be many finance directors with no qualifications though!

I never mentioned a degree only meeting requirements for chartered status. This does not mandate a degree.

When my wife joined Conti the fd there had no formal qualifications, he was an old boy though.

 

[slambo69]

I still can't believe how many people get worked up over a title.

I've studied Engineering, I've got an Engineering Degree and I work in Engineering, but I couldn't care less what anyone else refers to themselves as.

It's not as if being an Engineer is really that special. Do you actually think your life would be different if 'fake' Engineers had to refer to themselves as something else?

Girl: What do you do?
Guy: Oh I'm a repair technician
Girl: Next....
Next Guy: Hey baby, I'm a REAL Engineer
Girl: ZOMG, let me have your babies!!!!!

Im an engineer and when I worked in ukraine girls knew that engineers were the same as doctors and lawyers and practically threw themselves at engineers. But yes, in the UK this doesnt happen.

I'm a graduate engineer and this whole issue used to annoy me a lot more than it does now.

Don't get me wrong, I still absolutely hate the fact that a lot of people think that because I'm an engineer I plug in Sky boxes for a living. But if I was genuinely concerned I'd move out of the country - and quite possibly will one day. Engineers can earn roughly twice as much in, for example, Canada, Germany or Australia. For now, I can't be bothered.

Engineers arent as well paid here because they are under valued, this is highlighted by people associating technicians with engineers.

Dont think you need chartership or to be working towards chartership to be classed as an engineer, it isnt the best route for all engineers.

 

[UK-AL05]

When my wife joined Conti the fd there had no formal qualifications, he was an old boy though.

No academic? and no professional qualifications?

I know plenty of non-academic FD's but I know many with cima, acca, aca etc

 

[cm1179]

i've engineered loads of stuff!