Huge accident on M5

Only recently was I on the motorway, with all three lanes moving slowly but 'filled' by vehicles with no room to swap lanes. I was in the middle lane, and the lorry in the slow lane next to me indicated to come into my lane while I was almost alongside his cab. Even if I could have moved there was still another car behind me in the space he would have needed. Cue lots of horn tapping and ungentlemanly signals from the thick creep. I actually couldn't quite believe his illogical brain wiring. There wasn't even a proper reason for him to move lanes.

No wonder people hate lorry drivers. The only ones that seem guaranteed to be good drivers are Eddie Stobart drivers. (Edit: lol as above :D)
 
It's not just a wheel click, it's part of the practicale. I see no reason why extra training would have any benefit of following distances. People know it or used to, but have forgotten as police do not pull people over.

So you want police cars to patrol every part of every motor way at all times?
 
Only recently was I on the motorway, with all three lanes moving slowly but 'filled' by vehicles with no room to swap lanes. I was in the middle lane, and the lorry in the slow lane next to me indicated to come into my lane while I was almost alongside his cab. Even if I could have moved there was still another car behind me in the space he would have needed. Cue lots of horn tapping and ungentlemanly signals from the thick creep. I actually couldn't quite believe his illogical brain wiring. There wasn't even a proper reason for him to move lanes.

No wonder people hate lorry drivers. The only ones that seem guaranteed to be good drivers are Eddie Stobart drivers. (Edit: lol as above :D)

In that situation I always assume that the lorry driver is going to do that, so don't pull alongside him until there's room on the other side.

Did anyone see Traffic Cops last night? They pulled over a lorry driver who'd been drinking cans of Special Brew while driving (there were 4 empties and 6 unopened cans in the cab :eek: ) and talking on his mobile - he was twice the legal limit on the evidential breathtest. Scary stuff. Respect to the Stobart drivers though ;)
 
I wish all lorries were limited to exactly the same speed, then I would n't be queuing behind them down the motorway everyday while they overtake each other at 1 mile an hour :(
 
So you want police cars to patrol every part of every motor way at all times?

:confused:
No, I want them when they are out and about, to pull people over and issue a fixed penalty notice. Just like they do ATM for many other offences.
It's the only way. People know this information and ignore it.

It's like trying to say people don't know the speed limit and need extra training.
 
Thank you!

If people bother to re-read what I wrote rather than go on about the power of their V8 (DRZ!) you may appreciate that I was indicating only when cars were clearly behind me - I've been driving long enough to do it properly, (despite what the average trucker admittedly tends not to do) as I said, my point is given the size of the trailer, you can't see what I am intending to change lane to avoid, it could be a suddenly slowed HGV / Car (as per what possibly happened on the M5 last week) it could be a stranded vehicle, fallen tree, whatever. My point is, I may be effectively saying "****! I can't stop - weight & speed - I HAVE to change lane damn quickly which is why I am indicating" The time it takes for DRZ's impressive V8 to power past me could well be the difference between me hitting said obstruction, or, me being able to pull into lane 2 if DRZ had used his head & pulled into lane 3 or simply dropped back.

That is absolutely not what happens most of the time and you know it. I know that lane 3 is busy so I can't move over and I know that I don't want to try and brake hard enough to get out of the way of your marauding truck as it tries to swipe me off the road so I'll get out of the way in the way that works!

Of course if lane 3 is clear I will move over but in the split second you have between the indicators starting and an absolutely certain accident, there isn't always time to slot into a gap (or force one to appear).

Trucks should be banned from leaving lane 1 and then you wouldn't get moron truckers changing lanes 0.1ms after putting on their indicators causing massive loss of life.
 
If I am halfway alongside you, you shouldn't be indicating. If you start indicating and I am alongside you I either have to weigh up braking without collecting someone behind me, change lane into a gap that might or might not be there depending on traffic, or use all of my 4.3L of V8 power to get past you. The number of times I have been alongside a truck that has started indicating and moving across at the same time without giving me a chance to change lane means I now take the absolute fastest route out of dodge, which in maybe 75% of cases involves dropping 2 cogs and hitting the limiter.
I had a motorway lesson after I passed my test, and this was taught to me. If I am pulling out after someone is passing me, then wait until they are at least halfway past you and then start to indicate that you are to pull out behind that car. This is of course if there is enough room after the vehicle to do so, otherwise you wouldn’t indicate and wouldn’t make the manoeuvre.
 
That is absolutely not what happens most of the time and you know it.
Yes, your right, MOST OF THE TIME , its not what happens,I know this all to well - the events last friday were an exception and it is in that context that I am trying to get across to you how dangerous it is to not let a truck out by staying in his intended lane...

I know that lane 3 is busy so I can't move over and I know that I don't want to try and brake hard enough to get out of the way of your marauding truck as it tries to swipe me off the road so I'll get out of the way in the way that works!
Hang on, so your telling me, the best way to avoid a truck that is indicating - and most likely, alas, to just pull out into your path anyway, is to boot it in that lane & sail past? You seem to be missing the point, if people did not do this then the truck would be able to change lane in (what could be, but I admit often is not) an emergency situation! - I'd lay money that this sort of attitude would have contributed toward, but not have been an exclusice cause, in last fridays events on the M5. trucks trying to change lane, car drivers thinking "Meh! I'll boot it past" or more to the point, not thinking at all!



Of course if lane 3 is clear I will move over but in the split second you have between the indicators starting and an absolutely certain accident, there isn't always time to slot into a gap (or force one to appear).
I agree re you moving into lane 3, the rest I would say comes down to experience & anticipation.



Trucks should be banned from leaving lane 1 and then you wouldn't get moron truckers changing lanes 0.1ms after putting on their indicators causing massive loss of life.

On a dual carriageway, I actually agree (be it a motorway or not) but on a 3 lane motorway where anything over 3.5t is banned from lane 3? Really?
 
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Is it really a big deal to ease off the go button for 2 seconds until a gap appears? im sure R420 does expected everyone behind him to "slam on there breaks, risking life" in order to pull out into lane two? why does everyone need to get to there destination 2 seconds quicker? if you know your going onto a busy motorway with large amount of HGV's then leave 10mins earlier.

A motorist flooring it past a HGV just to save 2 seconds is surely more dangerous than to just pull into the next available space? if you are speeding up to pass a HGV indicting, chances are you are speeding up enough to then be undertaking the 'Que.' of traffic in lane three, also causing a dangerous moment?
 
On a dual carriageway, I actually agree (be it a motorway or not) but on a 3 lane motorway where anything over 3.5t is banned from lane 3? Really?

yep, not from a safety POV but from congestion. Banning from the two outer lane, massively reduces congestion and as they are speed limited, it makes very little difference. Should be banned from 6am to 8pm

The end of elephant racing is nigh! The Highways Agency has doubled motorway and dual carriageway trial sites where lorries are banned from overtaking, and introduced a permanent ban on a section of the M11. But should they be introducing a blanket ban?

The clampdown on slo-mo overtaking manoeuvres by lorries limited to 56mph – dubbed elephant racing by frustrated motorists – will come as a relief to drivers squeezed into a crowded outside lane or, worse, forced to follow the sluggish passes on dual-carriageways.

Targeting hills and stretches of high HGV concentration, the three new trial sites will all be active within the next two weeks and force lorries to stay in the inside lane during daylight hours. The three are:

• A mile-long uphill stretch of the A34 near East Ilsey, in Berkshire.
• Just south of Junction 9 on the M11 near Saffron Walden in Essex.
• A section of the M20 coming out of Dover in Kent.

The latest permanent ban is introduced on two sections of the A1M in Co Durham, which joins two other no-overtaking zones on the M42 near Birmingham and two sections of the A14 in Northamptonshire near Cold Ashby.

There’s no doubt the trials have been successful. The A1M sections, the Highways Agency reports that non-lorry traffic was an impressive 17 percent faster during morning rush hour traffic, while travel times for lorries “was not adversely affected” said a spokesman.

The widening ban has been welcomed by the AA. “There are very definitely stretches that would be improved,” said Andrew Howard, head of road safety. However he said that UK drivers would want the Highway Agency to go further. “A total ban would receive 100 percent support from the motorist.”

What do you think? Should the ban be widened to include ALL Britain’s dual carriageways and motorways, or is it enough to focus on inclines and congested sections. Does ‘elephant racing’ affect your regular driving. Let us know below!



Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/a..._ban_halts_elephant_racing.html#ixzz1dOuRKoPk
 
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Hang on, so your telling me, the best way to avoid a truck that is indicating - and most likely, alas, to just pull out into your path anyway, is to boot it in that lane & sail past? You seem to be missing the point, if people did not do this then the truck would be able to change lane in (what could be, but I admit often is not) an emergency situation! - I'd lay money that this sort of attitude would have contributed toward, but not have been an exclusice cause, in last fridays events on the M5. trucks trying to change lane, car drivers thinking "Meh! I'll boot it past" or more to the point, not thinking at all!

If I did as you suggest and did nothing I'd end up being woven into the mass of twisted metal that once was my luxobarge. If a truck is about to drive into me I get out of the way! I'm already going faster than the truck so it is easier (and thus safer) to push my foot into my luxurious carpet and sail off into the distance, leaving the smoking wreckage of the poor souls who didn't get out of the way in my wake.

As a 7 series owner, you ought to appreciate this!

Is it really a big deal to ease off the go button for 2 seconds until a gap appears? im sure R420 does expected everyone behind him to "slam on there breaks, risking life" in order to pull out into lane two? why does everyone need to get to there destination 2 seconds quicker? if you know your going onto a busy motorway with large amount of HGV's then leave 10mins earlier.

A motorist flooring it past a HGV just to save 2 seconds is surely more dangerous than to just pull into the next available space? if you are speeding up to pass a HGV indicting, chances are you are speeding up enough to then be undertaking the 'Que.' of traffic in lane three, also causing a dangerous moment?

Those 2 seconds are 2 seconds for the lorry to swipe you off the road.

In my experience, you have barely any time at all between a truck indicating they are about to try and kill you and them actually trying to kill you. I've been skilled/lucky/whatever enough to avoid this so far but one of my friends ended up hospitalised after being punted off the road by a trucker that changed lanes at the same time as flicking the indicator on.
 
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Generally I have to agree that Stobart drivers are amongst the best out there.

One thing I don't understand about your comments, R420LA6X2/4MNA, is this:

the events last friday were an exception and it is in that context that I am trying to get across to you how dangerous it is to not let a truck out by staying in his intended lane...

Setting aside the fact that the roads that day were reduced visibility so EVERYONE should have been driving at lower speeds with larger gaps, and less lane changes (one of the most dangerous manouvers on the road) and more than the usual high level of concentration in case of sudden thick spots as may be the case for the M5.

I don't understand how it is dangerous to not let a truck out - yes it might be rude and unsporstmanlike but I see so many lorries sat on the tailgate of someone who has decided to do under 56mph that I have to think the dangerous part is the lorry not leaving enough braking distance. Say a car suddenly wants to leave the nearside lane because it's got itself to close to someone, the car driver would be blamed, how is it different for a lorry?

Putting back in the weather conditions so back into context, if a lorry driver has to suddenly change lanes, he or she is still presumably driving too fast and/or too close for the conditions. Again, no doubt most of the car drivers are driving *far* too fast for the conditions as well. You *have* to expect the unexpected in poor conditions even more than good.

What I'm saying is swerving into another lane shouldn't be the get out clause.
 
If I did as you suggest and did nothing I'd end up being woven into the mass of twisted metal that once was my luxobarge. If a truck is about to drive into me I get out of the way! I'm already going faster than the truck so it is easier (and thus safer) to push my foot into my luxurious carpet and sail off into the distance, leaving the smoking wreckage of the poor souls who didn't get out of the way in my wake.

As a 7 series owner, you ought to appreciate this!



Those 2 seconds are 2 seconds for the lorry to swipe you off the road.

In my experience, you have barely any time at all between a truck indicating they are about to try and kill you and them actually trying to kill you. I've been skilled/lucky/whatever enough to avoid this so far but one of my friends ended up hospitalised after being punted off the road by a trucker that changed lanes at the same time as flicking the indicator on.

Ok, put it this way,Speed up or back off - most cars,even I'd imagine your V8, will brake much faster than they will accelerate. Its certainly the perception I get from my seat when I have indicated with vehicles along side me. Am I wrong there? will your S430 brake faster than it'll accelerate? I know my 528i does!

That difference in braking time as opposed to accelerating time could make all the difference to the trucker. - regardless of the rights or wrongs of how he's found himself in that situation, it could be his fault, possibly not. I would agree though that properly driven, this situation should not arise, alas, in the real world, it does - all the time....
Generally, especially on a motorway, I would wait for a gap - as in before I even indicate - on a busy dual carriageway for example, often not.

I have to indicate, its because its indicating my intentions I'm not saying its my green light to pull out on you because thats clearly wrong. I do agree many truckers don't do this - and this is where I think we are suffering from a lack of motorway policing - but don't start me on that one.

Unfortunately, I am experienced enough around trucks & truckers to know that a worrying percentage of them - especially foreign ones - will do exactly the opposite,a briefest of flick on the signal & out they come. Its bloody dangerous, bad driving and completely unprofessional.
But, rightly or wrongly, car drivers still need to take this into consideration where many don't it seems to me.

I pride myself in being a professional driver, believe me, I'd have been long kicked off Eddie Stobart Ltd ( ESL ) were I anything but & quite rightly imo, they have extremely high standards and expect us to maintain & display them, we are literally the company representatives out on the roads!

That said though,I could be in a situation where I have no option but to change lane suddenly, for whatever reason (I am speaking purely from a safety point of view not convenience I hasten to add) a 44ton HGV will not stop from relatively low speeds no matter how good the disc brakes/ ABS/ ASR or indeed the steering wheel attendant is and I just wish other drivers were more aware of it and acted accordingly.

Unfortunately, the bad minority - and I strongly believe minority to be the case - of HGV drivers don't drive with such a professional attitude which rightly annoys joe public and this "Me or him" attitude that I percieve often on the road becomes established.

Generally I have to agree that Stobart drivers are amongst the best out there.
Again, as an ESL driver, I acknowledge this and your sentiment is appreciated - speaking collectively I hasten to add!
One thing I don't understand about your comments, R420LA6X2/4MNA, is this:



Setting aside the fact that the roads that day were reduced visibility so EVERYONE should have been driving at lower speeds with larger gaps, and less lane changes (one of the most dangerous manouvers on the road) and more than the usual high level of concentration in case of sudden thick spots as may be the case for the M5.

I don't understand how it is dangerous to not let a truck out - yes it might be rude and unsporstmanlike but I see so many lorries sat on the tailgate of someone who has decided to do under 56mph that I have to think the dangerous part is the lorry not leaving enough braking distance. Say a car suddenly wants to leave the nearside lane because it's got itself to close to someone, the car driver would be blamed, how is it different for a lorry?

Putting back in the weather conditions so back into context, if a lorry driver has to suddenly change lanes, he or she is still presumably driving too fast and/or too close for the conditions. Again, no doubt most of the car drivers are driving *far* too fast for the conditions as well. You *have* to expect the unexpected in poor conditions even more than good.

What I'm saying is swerving into another lane shouldn't be the get out clause.

I quite agree, leaving too close a gap is asking for trouble, especially in poor conditions. Its easy to imagine how most of the drivers were bunched up on the M5 that night, we all see it all the time.

Swerving into another lane is not a get out clause, with an HGV it can in some situations be your only option.

To my thinking, its potentially dangerous to not let an HGV out as you don't know if he's about to flatten some obstacle in his path which could be a stranded car, with no lights for example - I have had that very experience,this was thankfully on a relatively quiet motorway which was unlit, at night.....

The situation I describe is the exception, not the norm, the norm is the trucker just being a dangerous ******, I quite agree and again, don't condone it.

I admit I am struggling to put into words what my mind is thinking here, its been a long week.... :o I hope you guys get the gist of where I'm coming from.

I'm not saying I'm a saint, none of us are, we all make mistakes, some, pay with their lives. :(
 
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Seems to be a bit of a scapegoat to be honest.

Pretty much.

They couldn't prosecute any of the drivers (even though some must have been driving too close to not to be able to stop - and yes I know others slammed into the back of others too)

The rugby club also had insufficient evidence against them, so **** it, lets blame the fireworks guy.

Scapegoat totally tbh.
 
+1, it was a fireworks display, and there's a good likelihood that some of the drivers ran out of talent by driving too fast/too close for the conditions.

"Ran out of talent" :rolleyes: Lots of people died in a truly horrific way because of this accident which may have been caused by a thick bank of smoke from the fireworks display. If this guy didn't do his job properly causing the smoke to drift across the motorway they yeah he probably is guilty of manslaughter. Whatever, lets see what the actual evidence is in court.
 
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