Very very Poor MPG for something that only weights about 180kg and has only a tiny surface area to push against the wind
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Best petrol engine over the last 50 years??
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Soldato
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Not by a long stretch, powerful for the size, reliable when looked after and plenty of opportunity to push for more power.Worst hands down
Land Rover developed a new thermostat, oil rail and head gasket (using multi layered steel rather than elastomer beading) to try and fix the issue, which works to some extent.
It'll never be perfect, and it requires far too much maintenance for a day-to-day car engine. It's acceptable to have to lavish care and love on a Lotus fitted with this engine, but not on a rusty old Rover 400.
This is why the T series wins for me, it'll carry on with next to no maintenance for many years, whereas a K series would get a bit narky as soon as you miss an oil change.
The low coolant capacity, long bolt design and poor manufacturing tolerances and poor design (head shuffle possible, poor thermostat layout, small cooling system) means the K series was doomed to constant issues.
The winning point for me is the low down torque even the 1.1 and 1.4 has, and the 1.6, 1.8 and 1.8VVC versions are pretty damn fun to drive - I've never owned anything with the 1.8 (not brave enough!) but driven a fair few. The 1.8 Turbo K series fitted to the Rover 75 and MG ZT is a right hoot when you catch it in the right gear with a good remap loaded - feels fantastic with around 200bhp.
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Me too.
Reliability aside the 1.8 K series in my TF was great fun to drive. The F20C is a masterpiece, but low down in the rev range the TF had much more torque and a lovely progressive power delivery in comparison.
Would I have the TF back? Not in this lifetime after owning my S2000. VTEC is too addictive! Also 120 bhp/l
This subject would have to be split up a bit more to make it a realistic debate.
Would I have the TF back? Not in this lifetime after owning my S2000. VTEC is too addictive! Also 120 bhp/l
This subject would have to be split up a bit more to make it a realistic debate.
Got to be the DFV, simply because you didn;t specify road engine or race engine! Some Stats:
Lotus, McLaren, Matra, Brabham, March, Surtees, Tyrrell, Hesketh, Lola, Williams, Penske, Wolf and Ligier are just some of the teams to have used the DFV. In 1969 and 1973 every World Championship race was won by DFV-powered cars, with the engine taking a total of 155 wins from 262 races between 1967 and 1985.
That is an amazing, astounding stat!
Theres more:
Seven years after it was introduced, the engine won the Le Mans 24 Hours twice, first in the Gulf-sponsored Mirage driven by Jacky Ickx and Derek Bell in 1975, then with the surprise winners Rondeau in 1980, driven by Jean Rondeau and Jean-Pierre Jaussaud.
Formula One Drivers' Champions (12):
1968 Graham Hill (Team Lotus)
1969 Jackie Stewart (Matra)
1970 Jochen Rindt (Team Lotus)
1971 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell)
1972 Emerson Fittipaldi (Team Lotus)
1973 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell)
1974 Emerson Fittipaldi (McLaren)
1976 James Hunt (McLaren)
1978 Mario Andretti (Team Lotus)
1980 Alan Jones (Williams)
1981 Nelson Piquet (Brabham)
1982 Keke Rosberg (Williams)
Formula One Constructors' Champions (10):
1968 Lotus
1969 Matra
1970 Lotus
1971 Tyrrell
1972 Lotus
1973 Lotus
1974 McLaren
1978 Lotus
1980 Williams
1981 Williams
Le Mans 24 Hours winners (2):
1975 Jacky Ickx/Derek Bell (Mirage),
1980 Jean Rondeau/Jean-Pierre Jaussaud (Rondeau)
Formula 3000 Champions (6):
1985 Christian Danner (March Engineering)
1986 Ivan Capelli (March Engineering)
1987 Stefano Modena (March Engineering)
1988 Roberto Moreno (Reynard)
1992 Luca Badoer (Reynard)
Lotus, McLaren, Matra, Brabham, March, Surtees, Tyrrell, Hesketh, Lola, Williams, Penske, Wolf and Ligier are just some of the teams to have used the DFV. In 1969 and 1973 every World Championship race was won by DFV-powered cars, with the engine taking a total of 155 wins from 262 races between 1967 and 1985.
That is an amazing, astounding stat!
Theres more:
Seven years after it was introduced, the engine won the Le Mans 24 Hours twice, first in the Gulf-sponsored Mirage driven by Jacky Ickx and Derek Bell in 1975, then with the surprise winners Rondeau in 1980, driven by Jean Rondeau and Jean-Pierre Jaussaud.
Formula One Drivers' Champions (12):
1968 Graham Hill (Team Lotus)
1969 Jackie Stewart (Matra)
1970 Jochen Rindt (Team Lotus)
1971 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell)
1972 Emerson Fittipaldi (Team Lotus)
1973 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell)
1974 Emerson Fittipaldi (McLaren)
1976 James Hunt (McLaren)
1978 Mario Andretti (Team Lotus)
1980 Alan Jones (Williams)
1981 Nelson Piquet (Brabham)
1982 Keke Rosberg (Williams)
Formula One Constructors' Champions (10):
1968 Lotus
1969 Matra
1970 Lotus
1971 Tyrrell
1972 Lotus
1973 Lotus
1974 McLaren
1978 Lotus
1980 Williams
1981 Williams
Le Mans 24 Hours winners (2):
1975 Jacky Ickx/Derek Bell (Mirage),
1980 Jean Rondeau/Jean-Pierre Jaussaud (Rondeau)
Formula 3000 Champions (6):
1985 Christian Danner (March Engineering)
1986 Ivan Capelli (March Engineering)
1987 Stefano Modena (March Engineering)
1988 Roberto Moreno (Reynard)
1992 Luca Badoer (Reynard)
Is that the YB with the 200 block?
I considered posting all that but decided the letters DFV said it all anyway - at least you educate the masses.....
Thanks for that, knew I'd heard about it somewhere!
It's a shame really as as you say, they're pretty good engines in terms of performance, 16v, dohc, lightweight etc. They're just poorly built, like most of the rover, lots of good ideas, just badly done! I've got a 1.6na 25, tis alright and 'touch wood' has yet to die, despite being abused!
This, great engine, found a cool quote someone had written on them a month or so back, kinda sums them up:
"Engineered to travel thousands of miles across huge and very hot interstates. Engineered to be able to run with low water and low oil pressure through the deserts of Arizona. Be able to cope with the harsh winters of the more Northern states of the US and Canada. Engineered where those same engines were used in trucks that frequently rack up 500,000 miles and that the Chevy small block is the most reliable engine as far as power and longeivity are concerned (more are used in drag racing and top end Kit car conversions than any other engine!)-should be enough testament that these cars were built to last"
Soldato
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I'm not too sure but for road car engines either:
BMW S54 in CSL trim
Or
Lamborghini Bizzarrini V12
For race engines it has to be the DFV and it's variants, although the Mezger type 912 turbo engine deserves a mention for kicking out around 1500bhp (early 1970s) in qualifying tune while bolted to a Porsche 917 which is a rather epic car in itself.
BMW S54 in CSL trim
Or
Lamborghini Bizzarrini V12
For race engines it has to be the DFV and it's variants, although the Mezger type 912 turbo engine deserves a mention for kicking out around 1500bhp (early 1970s) in qualifying tune while bolted to a Porsche 917 which is a rather epic car in itself.
Wasn't Schumacher's 1994 Benetton championship won with Ford V8 power? IIRC although it had received the Zetec branding by then it was still a development of the DFV.
Nope, it shared absolutely nothing with the DFV. The DFV was a 90° V8, the Zetec-R in the Benetton had a bank angle of 75°. The later engine also had pneumatic valve operation, larger swept capacity....pretty much the only similarity with the DFV is that both are 8 cylinder Formula One engines, that's about it!
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Good information was it not called Zeta first?
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Rolls Royce - Merlin