UK couple driven to suicide by poverty and neglect

[bhavv]

Wait, so he wasn't able to claim carer's allowance and she couldn't claim incapacity benefit because she wasn't diagnosed with anything, but she was also deemed unfit to work? By who?

Something's missing here, surely.. According to the article she couldn't move. How difficult is it to get a GP to say "you can't move"?

Very difficult. It can take many years on end to get a simple diagnosis from a GP or the NHS. They are normally as avoidant as they possibly can be with diagnosis, most of the time they will simply hand you medication without diagnosing or writing any information regarding what you have.

Long term / permanent disabilities are incredibly difficult to get diagnosed.

 

[elmarko]

I apologise for being able to separate the issue from the appeal to emotion fallacy presented with it.

Actually you seemed to imply that because the source of the information was bias (it make the argument already invalid) without actually referencing the facts first to see if the same story existed in multiple media streams.

Genuine data may be found in the daily mail/guardian or The sun - you dismissing the point based on the source is another fallacy - you should be cautious of various data-sources, the source of the data does not invalidate the findings if they are true.

Right wing ideology does not even pretend to be in favour of a generous welfare state, that's pretty much the textbook definition of "right wing".

"In politics, Right, right-wing and rightist generally refer to support for a hierarchical society justified on the basis of an appeal to natural law or tradition.

To varying degrees, the Right rejects the egalitarian objectives of left-wing politics, claiming that the imposition of equality is detrimental to society."

It's not a big leap of faith to assume that a part which propagates a reduction in welfare provisions would overall increase the amount times people end up in the same situation described by the OP - but it's worth noting that this particular couple would have most likely killed themselves regardless of who was in power.

Not that labour are any better either, all parties are right wing now.

 

[bhavv]

I actually do agree with stopping asylum seekers and foreign aid, however much or little they cost us, if the country cant even look after its own sick people first and foremost.

The UK is beyond ridiculous these days, throw money away to everywhere and anywhere else, but leave people who were born here with illness / disability to suffer.

 

[elmarko]

What is sad is that there is no social responsibility for this sort of thing. There is enough wealth in the country to take care of all the people below the poverty line without even blinking but then there is no responsibility for those that receive the aid to then get off that support.

The whole thing is broken and the reality is the society at whole is at fault not any one political party.

I find it deeply saddening - but then if I were so rich that I could do something about it would I? I'd like to think I would but if there were a solution to the problem wouldn't someone already be doing it?

We can afford it, just a few people have most of the wealth.

I fail to see how the poorest in society are the ones causing the problems when in actuality they don't have enough money between them to shoulder any real blame.

The top 1% of people have 21% of the wealth in the UK.

The top 5% have 40% of the UK wealth & the top 10% have 53% of the UK wealth.

The bottom 50% have 7% of the total wealth in the UK - the people on benefits (in the bottom 10%) will have less than 1% of the total wealth in the UK - wake up.

I find it amusing when people try to attribute the collapse of society on the groups which have nothing within it.

 

[edscdk]

awful. did the social workers who took their child away not flag the situation up to a level that would have been appropriate?

yes it is fact, its always someone elses fault...

those two people would have been much better off than a majority of people in the world... why don't all those millions commit suicide?

 

[HAz]

Couldnt matey just get a job instead of moaning about hand outs for his partner all the time?

 

[bhavv]

yes it is fact, its always someone elses fault...

those two people would have been much better off than a majority of people in the world... why don't all those millions commit suicide?

A lot of them do, however from a quality of life perspective based on the persons home country, this couple in the UK would have likely suffered just as much, if not more due to how much more expensive everything here is and how much more developed we are meant to be than third world countries.

Despite the UKs financial problems, the country is still wealthy enough to prevent stuff like this from happening.

I believe the correct term here would be 'Its subjective'.

 

[SteveOBHave]

Rubbish.

We can afford it, just a few people have most of the wealth.

I fail to see how the poorest in society are the ones causing the problems when in actuality they don't have enough money between them to shoulder any real blame.

The top 1% of people have 21% of the wealth in the UK.

The top 5% have 40% of the UK wealth & the top 10% have 53% of the UK wealth.

The bottom 50% have 7% of the total wealth in the UK - the people on benefits (in the bottom 10%) will have less than 1% of the total wealth in the UK - wake up.

I find it amusing when people try to attribute the collapse of society on the groups which have nothing within it.

Huh? When did I ever say that the poor were to blame? I said the whole system was broken. You've essentially just agreed with what I said straight after telling me it was rubbish...

 

[Karl]

Very difficult. It can take many years on end to get a simple diagnosis from a GP or the NHS. They are normally as avoidant as they possibly can be with diagnosis, most of the time they will simply hand you medication without diagnosing or writing any information regarding what you have.

Long term / permanent disabilities are incredibly difficult to get diagnosed.

Ah right. I have no experience of that sort of thing, so couldn't comment.

The news article says that the woman wasn't allowed to get a job by the job centre because she had no literacy / numeracy skills, but doesn't mention anything about her mobility.

It also mentions how they walked 5 miles a week to get food, inferring that they were capable of moving as a unit, and (I can't view the video as at work), if that's a video of them being interviewed in the article, she looks capable of holding a cup of soup.

Granted I have no real insight into their lives, but I used to work in a supermarket stacking shelves while I was a student, and there were 3 or 4 disabled members of staff able to perform a manual labour duty (usually on the fruit and veg section or pushing trollies of food waste to the bins), so it's a shame that she wasn't able to do something like that, even if it was just to get them a few extra quid a month.

 

[elmarko]

Huh? When did I ever say that the poor were to blame? I said the whole system was broken. You've essentially just agreed with what I said straight after telling me it was rubbish...

Lol,

Yeah, I started the reply to somebody else's comments - the rubbish was not aimed at you (I was going to edit it, but for some reason it never lets me edit on here. - ahh working now - fixed.

 

[tidusjar]

That is very tragic and no one should be put in that position that they would even concider suicide.

 

[D.P.]

Rubbish.

We can afford it, just a few people have most of the wealth.

I fail to see how the poorest in society are the ones causing the problems when in actuality they don't have enough money between them to shoulder any real blame.

The top 1% of people have 21% of the wealth in the UK.

The top 5% have 40% of the UK wealth & the top 10% have 53% of the UK wealth.

The bottom 50% have 7% of the total wealth in the UK - the people on benefits (in the bottom 10%) will have less than 1% of the total wealth in the UK - wake up.

I find it amusing when people try to attribute the collapse of society on the groups which have nothing within it.

All very nice an irrelevent. Do you know how much tax the top 1% and 5% of peopleay, and what portion of the total tax burden that is? The issue in the OP has nothing to do with what some % of people earn.

And that is ignoring the stupidity of such stats in the first place. It is like saying 1+1= 2, therefore rich people are evil. The numbers are meaningless. Like saying the 0.0001% of the UK population that have won the lottery are richer than 99% of the rest of the population. es, and , so what? That is obvious.

 

[D.P.]

I actually do agree with stopping asylum seekers and foreign aid, however much or little they cost us, if the country cant even look after its own sick people first and foremost.

The UK is beyond ridiculous these days, throw money away to everywhere and anywhere else, but leave people who were born here with illness / disability to suffer.

The country can look after its own people, it just has problems with red-tape etc which means things like this happen. It has nothing what so ever to do with assylum seekers or foreign aid which are just loose change in monterary terms.

 

[Mucky_Pup]

IIRC from when this story first came out, weren't they not claiming a considerable amount of benefits for some bizare reason such as they were scared the woman would be put in care or something, I'm sure they were scaremongered by some of their friends into not claiming benefits they were entitled to and would have got.

 

[SteveOBHave]

All very nice an irrelevent. Do you know how much tax the top 1% and 5% of peopleay, and what portion of the total tax burden that is? The issue in the OP has nothing to do with what some % of people earn.

And that is ignoring the stupidity of such stats in the first place. It is like saying 1+1= 2, therefore rich people are evil. The numbers are meaningless. Like saying the 0.0001% of the UK population that have won the lottery are richer than 99% of the rest of the population. es, and , so what? That is obvious.

There is something to be said for the ideal of an equal distribution of wealth - of course there is always the clear and fair argument that the people that have the wealth worked for it and the inference that the poor don't (ignoring a large number of social and systematic failures that do help keep the poor poor)...

Perhaps the key is to give greater allowances to people that are actually working. 'You've made the effort to get a job, here's some extra cash'.

 

[edscdk]

That is very tragic and no one should be put in that position that they would even concider suicide.

lots of people are in the same position in the UK, they are just not so feeble minded they commit suiside...

infact millions of poeple live on the same income...

I bet their house was a total %$^& tip despite the fact they did not work (so hjad all day to keep it tidy)... typical british "its someone elses' fault" family...

there are poeple who die because of lack of clean water, food or basic medical care...

 

[Robosapien]

A genuinely frightening reality. Horrific really.

 

[arknor]

yes it is fact, its always someone elses fault...

those two people would have been much better off than a majority of people in the world... why don't all those millions commit suicide?

because people that are poor in poor countries often dont realise how hard they actually have it, while people poor in britain feel alone

 

[Xordium]

Wait, so he wasn't able to claim carer's allowance and she couldn't claim incapacity benefit because she wasn't diagnosed with anything, but she was also deemed unfit to work? By who?

Something's missing here, surely.. According to the article she couldn't move. How difficult is it to get a GP to say "you can't move"?

Let's say theoretically she had multiple sclerosis (a well known bad disease to have to get support for under the current system) the clue for diagnosis is in the name - you will not get the diagnosis until you have multiple episodes. But during that time you may well have had permanent damage from the first attack. So whilst it is quite clear to a neurologist that is most likely is MS, and the GP would then follow that lead, the actual diagnosis would not be made and the person would be signed off work with for example: lethargy, fatigue, dizziness.

Now imagine if someone posted a thread on here saying "I feel tired and dizzy" can you imagine some of the regular posters being that sympathetic or would they just be plain rude and troll.
Now imagine if someone posted a thread on here saying "I have got diagnosed with MS" can you imagine everyone would be supportive.

Now imagine that person presents to a pretty uncaring company (Atos) who is paid to do the medical checks with a person who is not really trained properly to make an assessment all using criteria that is not fit for purpose (which can be shown by the high appeal rate). Not so difficult to see why these things happen now is it when you add in the natural human bias.

I am not saying that is what went on here because I don't think it is I am just saying even well founded cases quite easily slip through the system.

 

[edscdk]

There is something to be said for the ideal of an equal distribution of wealth -
.

That would be bad for us, I'd not want my wealth distributed evenly...

1min on google

gdp of the world $60t
world population ~60b (rounded down)

do you want to live on $1000 a year?

(or maybe thats not the right way to look at it?)