Euro talks, what are the implications?

[Crimefighter]

Why is additional regulation of the City a bad thing ?

We've seen what happens when the money men are allowed to go about their business with next to no regulation, that's why we're all in this mess.

The link that strike212 provided has a good explanation.

Cameron offered a compromise that was rejected - meaning that the eurozone heavyweights really, specifically wanted to regulate the City.

This could have lead to eurozone policies that favored other European Financial centres such as Franfurt but disadvantage the City - and had Cameron signed on the dotted line there would be nothing the UK could do about such actions.

I dont disagree that bankers are to blame for this mess, but at least Cameron has ensured the financial regulatory decision making is decided by the UK House of commons (and by extension the UK taxpayer), rather than outsiders who may or may not have an agenda to further their own countries financial industries at the expense of the City.

Hope that made sense.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

Amazingly I think Cameron may have done he best thing for us. I wouldn't be surprised if the Irish are worried about the implications of Frnco-German control of their fiscal planning. Even before this treaty members of the Bundestag got hold of the Irish budget before it had been given to the Irish Parliament, imagine how bad it will be with the treaty.

It is a worry, but they are effectivly paying the bills that are keeping the lights on in Ireland, for now. We are between a rock and a hard place - stay in the euro, we are screwed - leave, or be ejected, and we are also screwed.

These choice is which is the lesser of the two evils.

Nate

 

[Crimefighter]

The Eurozone crisis WAS NOT caused by bankers in London who contribute a disproportionally large amount to tax revenues. A structural deficit in government spending has nothing to do with how much a comodities trader gets as a performance related bonus.

I assume you are talking about Greece?

If yes, UK banks who irresponsibly lent money to those governments while paying themselves massive commission bonuses for doing so, knowing that if it went wrong they would get bailed out, definitely deserve a share of the blame.

 

[franco_22]

It'd be interesting to see the UK start talks on joining the USA/Canada Free Trade Area. Arguably we have more in common and stronger ties with them than mainland Europe, the only difference is a slightly larger piece of water in between us.

See, having lived in North America, the UK and Europe, I have a pretty informed opinion of where I'd rather be, and it makes me laugh that the UK would rather be "America's" little "bitch" than to be a major player in Europe. Because that's all we will ever be at the hands of the US.

 

[KNiVES]

double post/edit

 

[KNiVES]

It's probably off-topic but in the last year or so, all I've been doing is agreeing with pretty much everything the Tories have done, while rolling my eyes at Labour and disagreeing with their general stances (and the actions of the traditionally left-wing unions and so on) and wondering just what the hell has made them such a shambles since Blair left. I'm actually starting to consider myself a Tory supporter now, after years of being a Labour voter. Cameron and co are just pushing all the right buttons right now, and ever since they got into power. It's quite a frank and surprising conclusion if I may say so of myself but only a fool votes against his interests.

See, having lived in North America, the UK and Europe, I have a pretty informed opinion of where I'd rather be, and it makes me laugh that the UK would rather be "America's" little "bitch" than to be a major player in Europe. Because that's all we will ever be at the hands of the US.

We're not going to be anybody's little bitch, we've already just told Europe to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[Strife212]

“The UK is as isolated as somebody who refused to join the Titanic just before it sailed”

 

[lunarwolf]

i love how some journalist present this as a Cameron veto. he didn't veto anything, since a veto would imply that he would have stopped this from going through. unfortunately the bus is carrying on and Cameron has isolated the UK even more.

lol at comparing EU to the Titanic. the Euro will survive this, it's not like Europe is doomed to the dark ages - the "Greek situation" is fairly small in terms of cash when compared to EU. every currency has gone through dips.

 

[RDM]

In all, probably the best decision for the UK but it is going to have some serious long term consequences, just not quite as serious as if we had signed up to it.

i love how some journalist present this as a Cameron veto. he didn't veto anything, since a veto would imply that he would have stopped this from going through. unfortunately the bus is carrying on and Cameron has isolated the UK even more.

Effectively he stopped it being a new EU Treaty and now they have to use accords instead. So agreements between governments rather than EU wide rules. His veto has caused them to take a different route to a similar end. More importantly it has stopped the rules applying to us.

 

[Ceryndrion]

See, having lived in North America, the UK and Europe, I have a pretty informed opinion of where I'd rather be, and it makes me laugh that the UK would rather be "America's" little "bitch" than to be a major player in Europe. Because that's all we will ever be at the hands of the US.

I would never have called us a major player within the EU, in fact as far as I can tell, a lot of the posturing going on at the moment, is France/Germany doing their very best to make a glorious franco-germanic europe with the uk reduced to the importance of a minor nation anyway..

Either way, we'd be small fry..

 

[Macro]

Perhaps the UK should look to other ties and strengthen the economic relationship with the Commonwealth as a truly global "family" of nations.

The UK continues to remain a member of the European Union and it's FTA, just not a member of the single currency eurozone and is far from "Isolated"

In any case this is only round one in a lot of negotiations. A bunch of the country's that have "agreed" to the plan still need to take it to their individual parliaments for approval and that is far from a done deal.

In addition any accord outside of the Treaty of Lisbon would mean the apparatus of the EU would not be able to be used to administer and enforce the agreement. If it was, as an EU member the UK would have the right to have a say in proceedings so it will be interesting to see how Germany and France intend to mange the agreement and impose penalties without EU backing and the use of the EU courts and Commission.

So far despite the hysteria I would suggest there's no sign of the large lady warming up for a song...

 

[lunarwolf]

So agreements between governments rather than EU wide rules. His veto has caused them to take a different route to a similar end. More importantly it has stopped the rules applying to us.

basically achieving nothing. Britain has gained nothing, except for bankers. on the other hand it has lost credibility and alienated itself from 26 other nations, whom Britain does 40% of it's exports with. if you think annoying your biggest trading partners is a winning strategy, then you are entitled to your opinion. furthermore, now UK will basically have nothing to say/influence in future EU affairs, which certainly won't take on board UK issues when making their decisions. and all this why? because Cameron won't tax bankers on speculative trading

 

[PlacidCasual]

When have they ever taken on board UK issues? They wouldn't even give a guarantee on one single issue that is of critical fiscal importance to the UK. Instead they choose to blame us for their own mismanagement. Also we're still in the EU this treaty is not an EU treaty.

Our importance to the EU comes in 18 billion similar ways annually. As one wag said this afternoon "we're isolated in so far as we missed boarding the Titanic"

 

[Orcish-Horde]

Is the Republic of Ireland not our largest export market in Europe and in turn we are theirs? I can't help but think we could do a lot better outside of europe, in a market of some 300 million people our main market is only 4 million people. Something is very wrong.

 

[lunarwolf]

When have they ever taken on board UK issues? They wouldn't even give a guarantee on one single issue that is of critical fiscal importance to the UK. Instead they choose to blame us for their own mismanagement. Also we're still in the EU this treaty is not an EU treaty.

Our importance to the EU comes in 18 billion similar ways annually. As one wag said this afternoon "we're isolated in so far as we missed boarding the Titanic"

ofc they have. Thatcher even managed to get some refunds just to mention one. Europe is a long term vision, and will continue to evolve. the decision today will just lead to UK eventually forced out or come back in a weak position to be back in the club. either way it wasn't a smart move. So bankers would pay a transactional tax and deal with some regulation, and you think they would all flee? lol when corporate taxes went up did every business desert the shores of the UK? let's get real

 

[RDM]

basically achieving nothing. Britain has gained nothing, except for bankers.

Considering how reliant our economy currently is on the financial sector I would say that, yes, we have gained quite a bit. 80% of the proposed financial transaction tax would have fallen on the City. Is that really a fair tax where one country pays 80% of a new EU wide tax? Not to mention opening us up to even greater inteference which would not always be in our best interests.

on the other hand it has lost credibility and alienated itself from 26 other nations, whom Britain does 40% of it's exports with. if you think annoying your biggest trading partners is a winning strategy, then you are entitled to your opinion. furthermore, now UK will basically have nothing to say/influence in future EU affairs, which certainly won't take on board UK issues when making their decisions. and all this why? because Cameron won't tax bankers on speculative trading

Depends, the EU could certainly try and freeze us out of the decision making process, but do you honestly think that would be a wise thing to do with the 2nd/3rd largest net contributor of the EU budget? The relationship with the EU is of mutual benefit after all.

I think blocking this treaty will have significant ramifications to the UK in the future but that they would not be as bad as the ramifications of signing the treaty would have had instead.

 

[lunarwolf]

in a market of some 300 million people

try over 500 million people. also Ireland is in the Euro zone and have been bailed out in the past, somehow i doubt they would leave Europe to join up with UK, when all UK does is bitch when it has to pay, yet it contributes less than Germany, France and Italy, yet they don't bitch nearly as much

 

[arknor]

See, having lived in North America, the UK and Europe, I have a pretty informed opinion of where I'd rather be, and it makes me laugh that the UK would rather be "America's" little "bitch" than to be a major player in Europe. Because that's all we will ever be at the hands of the US.

keep dreaming were france and germanys "bitch" held by our balls in brussels and its always been that way

 

[RDM]

try over 500 million people. also Ireland is in the Euro zone and have been bailed out many times, somehow i doubt they would leave Europe to join up with UK, when all UK does is bitch when it has to pay, yet it contributes less than Germany, France and Italy, yet they don't bitch nearly as much

We seemed to be quite speedy in giving them quite a large loan when they were last in trouble...

 

[lunarwolf]

Depends, the EU could certainly try and freeze us out of the decision making process, but do you honestly think that would be a wise thing to do with the 2nd/3rd largest net contributor of the EU budget? The relationship with the EU is of mutual benefit after all.

I think blocking this treaty will have significant ramifications to the UK in the future but that they would not be as bad as the ramifications of signing the treaty would have had instead.

try 4th. Many EU leaders are upset with Cameron, esp the way he did it. Says he supports a strong Euro and acknowledges it's importance to UK market yet does nothing to support. you can't have have it all. the double life is not sustainable, and a choice has been made - not definitive yet, but it will in the long run as Europe gets even more integrated, then the UK will be out on it's own, like Turkey

We seemed to be quite speedy in giving them quite a large loan when they were last in trouble...

wasn't UK that paid, it was Europe (and the UK as a member)