Heaven and Hell

jamesblade said:
I'm aware of the theory that you mention, and can see it's point. For instance If an explorer came back from the Amazon and claimed there was an animal that no one had ever seen before but he hadn't been able to bring one back as proof, would I personaly take the stand that he' can't prove it so it doesn't ? proberly not because i'm aware that even now we are still discovering new animal species all the time.
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But the above would be a valid and testable hypothesis to use Occam's Razor on - we're assuming a real animal here with no magical properties i.e. it takes up physical space and has presence. In such a case you can test for it, it's a falsifiable hypothesis which is fundamental to being able to scientifically test for it - where there are unique events or the claim is for something with supernatural powers then science isn't the thing to test for it. By all means use science to test for things that are claimed to impact on the physical world but remember that applying it outwith the area it is meant for means that your results may be unreliable and anything you then subsequently decide from those results is at best on "faith" as you've extrapolated.

jamesblade said:
But religious concepts that come from the mind are a lot harder to give credence too. They are only thoughts and ideas which are very very powerful BUT they are not physical objects that we can see, touch, feel, smell. We only give them life in our minds, where i believe anything can exist including heaven and hell ?

If you feel i'm trying to use the "Occam's Razor" train of thought, then it's honestly not intentional. I think it's just the way I look at life in general.

Even though this type of thread crops up regular, I like talking about it, it's different and a hell of a lot deeper than my mates usual talks about football, pot, how smashed you can get etc :)
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Religious concepts are harder for many people to give credence to, I more or less skirt the issue in many ways because of my philosophical standpoint - it doesn't much matter to me whether a god does or doesn't exist as there appears to be no impact on my life either way so I don't give the question much thought on an everyday basis.

LOAM said:
Sounds very much like the panoramic life review experienced by people who have a NDE.
Death, a character in one of Terry Pratchett's diskworld series said this;

“It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.” ― The Last Continent
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It does but that specific phenomenon doesn't actually speak to the existence of heaven or hell which is why I was clarifying.

I'm wondering where our thread starter has got to?
 
semi-pro waster said:
Religious concepts are harder for many people to give credence to, I more or less skirt the issue in many ways because of my philosophical standpoint - it doesn't much matter to me whether a god does or doesn't exist as there appears to be no impact on my life either way so I don't give the question much thought on an everyday basis.
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Do terrorists not effect you?
 
No I don't believe in heaven, hell, afterlife or any kind of god.
Why believe one and not the other for a start, because the sources are all very unreliable and it requires a degree of faith, aside from what everyone else was doing why do you have faith in your religion in particular? Have you considered other relgions or is it a sin to have an open mind?

Don't believe in hell for a start and if it did exist it's not like it's a threat, infact it's preferable to heaven.
1. The fire cannot burn me because I have no molecular structure
2. If god is half as judgemental as I hear then all my friends are going to hell too
3. Heaven sounds boring, who wants to follow those rules for eternity? It's really oppressive.

And according to the bible, hell can't exist without heaven because well, where would satan be kicked out of.
Come to think of it, where is satans book? I reckon he's being the bigger man by not defending himself against these accusations, he might be a genuinely nice guy.

The reason heaven and hell were invented? As a threat/ reward system to keep people hooked into a religion, fear is a great motivational factor.

I'm really not religious, if you are great, hope you're happy but it's not for me.
 
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Castiel said:
What the word 'moniker' or my username.....


'moniker' is just a word I use on occasion....my username derives from the Angel in the TV show Supernatural, whom my wife seems to think I resemble, not in apparance per se, but my implacable nature....:eek:

Basically the wife choose it.
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Yeah moniker, I know some smaller online enclaves that are in a habit of such English and I found it suprising here that's all.

I'll keep my eye on you a wee bit sharper now, just in case you are an inflitrator. ;)

:p
 
Biohazard said:
Yeah moniker, I know some smaller online enclaves that are in a habit of such English and I found it suprising here that's all.

I'll keep my eye on you a wee bit sharper now, just in case you are an inflitrator. ;)

:p
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I'm surprised that it is considered rare in usage?

I use it quite a lot generally, must be my advancing age....:eek:
 
Everyone has to belive in something, like your name is this and you believe it,

Do people really think they're just here to play without any sort of purpose?
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Do terrorists not effect you?
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Do they affect you?

Besides if you are going to make a case that a belief in God is somehow responsible for the political motivations of terrorists that would be rather daft as they would almost certainly be terrorists regardless of their religious convictions if the political and social situations which led them to act were the same.
 
Castiel said:
Do they affect you?

Besides if you are going to make a case that a belief in God is somehow responsible for the political motivations of terrorists that would be rather daft.
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How is it, isn't the reason that Osama & Co did everything they did because they believed their religion was the right one? and they wanted to force the western world to believe the same? I mean who wouldn't want 72 Virgins
 
Castiel said:
Do they affect you?

Besides if you are going to make a case that a belief in God is somehow responsible for the political motivations of terrorists that would be rather daft as they would almost certainly be terrorists regardless of their religious convictions if the political and social situations which led them to act were the same.
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They don't effect me right now, but they effect the 7 (I think it was) Nigerian churches and the people within them who were blown up on christmas. You know as well as I do that there are numerous cases of the church oppressing people which may not effect me directly, for example the way gay people are treated, but which are thoroughly odious.

Jay794 said:
How is it, isn't the reason that Osama & Co did everything they did because they believed their religion was the right one? and they wanted to force the western world to believe the same? I mean who wouldn't want 72 Virgins
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exactly.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Do terrorists not effect you?
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So you're presuming that without religion there would be no terrorism?

But in an ordinary sense the answer is broadly no, I have been fortunate enough not to be affected by terrorism in any significant way, there's the inconveniences at the airport with scanning and only liquids under 100ml etc or no bins at train stations but aside from that there is very little impact on my life.

The answer to the question is still no, whether a god exists or not makes little difference to me as far as I can tell. People who claim to be followers of religions (let's not ignore that almost all of those causing problems have fundamentally misunderstood the tenets of the religions they claim to follow) may impact on my life but that's a separate issue to whether the existence of a god will make one iota of difference to my life.
 
semi-pro waster said:
So you're presuming that without religion there would be no terrorism?

But in an ordinary sense the answer is broadly no, I have been fortunate enough not to be affected by terrorism in any significant way, there's the inconveniences at the airport with scanning and only liquids under 100ml etc or no bins at train stations but aside from that there is very little impact on my life.

The answer to the question is still no, whether a god exists or not makes little difference to me as far as I can tell. People who claim to be followers of religions (let's not ignore that almost all of those causing problems have fundamentally misunderstood the tenets of the religions they claim to follow) may impact on my life but that's a separate issue to whether the existence of a god will make one iota of difference to my life.
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No I don't think there would be no terrorism, but as it stands, a lot of terrorism is religiously motivated.

The second part of what you said, yeah I can understand that, but I have concerns for other people in the world and the fact that their lives can be destroyed by religious beliefs concerns me.

And before anyone jumps on the bandwagon, I am not saying that all 'evil' is religiously motivated.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
They don't effect me right now, but they effect the 7 (I think it was) Nigerian churches and the people within them who were blown up on christmas. You know as well as I do that there are numerous cases of the church oppressing people which may not effect me directly, for example the way gay people are treated, but which are thoroughly odious.
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You stated terrorists, not religious intolerance or oppression of disparate groups, all of which happen with or without a belief in God. The ignorance, intolerance and hatreds remain....it is just the justifications that change. The aptly named Islamofascism in Nigeria and Egypt is based in old tribal animosities and political manoeuvring for power, with the Boko Haram and Salafis that support them affiliating with anti Western factions in North Africa....actions which are condemned un-Islamic by the majority of Islamic Imams and Scholars.

Jay794 said:
How is it, isn't the reason that Osama & Co did everything they did because they believed their religion was the right one? and they wanted to force the western world to believe the same? I mean who wouldn't want 72 Virgins
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dirtychinchilla said:
exactly.
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Nope......they may use their religion to justify their actions internally and to recruit externally, but the reasons for their actions are firmly rooted in real world politics, not in how they interpret their religion.
 
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dirtychinchilla said:
our purpose is to continue the existence of our species, as with every other animal on the earth.
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As im sure you know, life is made up of choices you believe your purpose is what you've stated, this guy may think its this or i say its this or that each to there own i guess...

Please try to follow this train of thought:

Everyone is born with certain choices. Those choices are different for a lot of people but, in general, I feel, everyone has at least the same choices for their lives in terms of education and kindness.

They may be born into money, or with incredibly intelligent parents. They might have nothing and be born in the ghetto. Perhaps even into royalty (the unlucky kids - what a ghastly existence). So, some choices will be which perfect private school shall I go to? Which colour should I choose for the interior of my Bentley? Should I have a garage for 6 cars or only 4?

Others must choose 1 loaf of bread of 2 for the week. If they should work 18 hours a day or only 12 so they can spend at least a little time with their kids. Should they take the bus every other week or drive all the time? Which costs more, the bus ticket or petrol?

But, despite these situations, both have the 'choice' of personal change. Prince William from the UK has the choices of the first examples (garage, Bentley) but he must also choose in the same way as Mr Homeless in the car park. That is what brings humans together behind all the BS that is material wealth. A man falls over and yelps in pain. Do I, as the Prince, help this person or do I walk on? Or do I, as a homeless man, sit here and watch from my box or help?

There is a free library down the road. Do I ask my servent to bring me some books on such and such a topic to study, or do I choose to go to expensive lunches with friends and look at new cars? I'm homeless, do I choose to use the little money I have obtained from kind people, after purchasing some food, to go into the library and find an interesting subject? Or do I sit here and whither away under the weather?

We all have choices and I strongly feel (I see) that 'everyone', and I mean 'everyone', gets what they deserve. I don't expect you to say "But many people have what they do NOT deserve". Yes, that's right. I agree and I know. Those people born into money or, for example, that absolute sl** of a worthless c*w, Miss Ecclestone who explained, publicly to the paper, that her life was so difficult, that she had endless hours of which shoes to wear from her wardrobe of half a million pounds worth of designer shoes. She honestly said that. Please search Google for Bernie Ecclestone's daughter. An example of an utter nobody.


Its your choice in what you 'choose' to believe.
 
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